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Old 09-14-2005, 02:33 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seahawks80
Eventhough the NHL is probably the least popular of the major sports, is this really a bad deal in the grand scheme of exclusive satellite radio content deals? I usually compare deals to the high water mark of satellite radio content deals... Howard Stern. There have been some arguments over the value of the Howard deal, but in general, many feel that it's a good PR move that can pull in a bunch of subscribers. Dollar for dollar though, is the Howard deal a better investment than XM's NHL deal? Howard Stern is estimated to have an audience of about 10 million listeners. Even with its low popularity, I'd have to guess that the NHL has much more than 10 million fans. Is Howard going to reach a wider audience than exclusive NHL content will? Based on the costs of acquiring exclusive content in the satellite radio industry, it really doesn't seem like too bad of a move.
It's not easy to compare apples (NHL) and oranges (Howard) like that. Howard has 10mil daily listeners now, but he's only on in some markets. When he goes national that number can go much higher and hopefully SIRIUS will reap the benifits (more subs & ad revenue).
NHL on the other hand has a lot of fans, but I have to ask "How many people will actually go out and buy XM just to hear NHL?" Probably not that many. Yeah it will sway some who were already thinking about getting Satellite radio for the other programming, the NHL will just put them over the top. XM units aren't going to fly off the shelf in Canada because of NHL on XM.

Plus, if you're a big hockey fan like everyone in Canada apparently is, wouldn't you want to get the NHL TV package. Why listen when you can watch.

This is not going to make XM or break SIRIUS in the long run.
Losing baseball was the big one, that really stung SIRIUS. But I guess you just can't have baseball and Howard.
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Old 09-14-2005, 02:49 PM   #62
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Default Nascar

You got nascar don't be to sad i have both radio's and like them both.
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Old 09-14-2005, 03:18 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds1
I am not happy about this it all. I was waiting for hockey to come back 'cause I knew that I'd be able to listen to the Flyers. I live 2.5 hrs. from Philly and can't get their local Sports Talk, but at least I will be able to listen to 610 WIP on the internet, one more reason to turn off Sirius.
I'm with ya brother....just down the road in Hanover. This sucks big time.
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Old 09-14-2005, 03:48 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackinbox
Who holds the record for the highest single-game attendance?

Answer: the Tampa Bay Lightning.
Bzzzz....wrong!

NHL single game attendence record was set last season in the Heritage Classic (Habs-Oilers). Over twice as many (57000 odd fans) as the Lightning-Flyers playoff game in '96.

You may want to call foul in that they played in a larger stadium, but that was also true when the TB-PHL game was played (first ever playoff series for the team, it should also be noted). Most hockey arenas are around 19K and Tampa was temporarily playing in that huge place (Suncoast Dome?) that held 28K or so.

Using the single game attendance record to show how great the South supports hockey is a bit disingenous in light of all the facts, don't ya think? Not only because the base fact is false but because the circumstances were not uniform throughout the league.

Now if you want, you can still claim the single game attendance record in the playoffs...

But set the playoff game in a huge arena in one of the big hockey towns and TB could kiss that record goodbye as well.
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Old 09-14-2005, 04:14 PM   #65
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[quote="Jackinbox"]
Quote:
NFL= Approx 25 days per year
NASCAR = 36 days per year

MLB= Approx 200 days per year
NHL= Approx 250 days per year
.
As far as the NFL goes, you have about 10 games playing on those 20 days. Only about 5 of them are shown in 1 peticular market, excluding directTV. While baseball is the same way, not every game is as important in season that has as few games as the NFL.

Also, do you think that Sirius might be wise, now having lost the NHL, to go after the AHL. They dont have the television or radio deals like the NHL and mainly the teams are from small towns. In those small towns you might see people more willing to stay a subscriber because of the lack of musical choices in their small cities.
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Old 09-14-2005, 04:33 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackinbox
Quote:
I am going to play devil's advocate like so many have done with Sirius and the NFL. If that is the case as you state it, then people are going to watch to Watch NHL, not listen to it on XM.
Maybe. What worries me about Sirius is that when you get down to it, the NFL and NASCAR don't add up to a whole lot of programming:

NFL= Approx 25 days per year
NASCAR = 36 days per year

MLB= Approx 200 days per year
NHL= Approx 250 days per year

Sure, I'm an NFL fan as well as an NHL fan but I can see that I'm going to get a lot more listening time out of the NHL than I would the NFL.
Pointing out the length of the actual season was a REALLY GREAT point that somehow got lost in the argument.

I guess Sirius can now boast that they have the lowest overall sports content on satellite radio.

To the poster who kept asking how hockey plays on radio, well how do you think it sounds?? Its non-stop back and forth action for two to three hours. Can you say that about baseball?

Although I love Sirius, I have to admit that this will probably kill them in Canada over the long run. I think it could represent a loss of about 250,000 - 500,000 subs when you include the churn rate when the "gray" market ones choose XM when they decide to finally go legit. (By all accounts, most experst agree that the current gray market in Canada is probably approaching the 200,000 mark... These are people PAYING for something they are not even supposed to have and where virtually NO advertising or marketing of any kind existed. Many have even gone to the extra expense of paying 'brokers' to set up a US address for them. I think that the legit sat market market will eventually reach 1 million plus subs with the vast majority now going XM.

What I really dont get is the constant ranting about Howard Stern. 10 Million daily listeners?? Just who provides that figure? I doubt it. So can Sirius expect 10 million new subs in January?? I can guarantee that there are way MORE than 10 million NHL fans continent wide. Will Stern even translate into 500,000 NEW subs??

The loss of any significant market segment with a sizable fan base should be cause for concern. Many of you keep forgetting that Sirius is IN THE HOLE BIG TIME and at somepoint, shareholders are going to start to demand results or this will be a sinking ship.

Remember, Sirius is a business and a business needs to produce profit to survive.
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Old 09-14-2005, 04:42 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polaris
To the poster who kept asking how hockey plays on radio, well how do you think it sounds?? Its non-stop back and forth action for two to three hours. Can you say that about baseball?
Hockey is a GREAT sport to listen to on the radio....especially if you have one of the great play by play guys. I grew up listening to Gene Hart doing Flyers games...that guy sounded like he was about to break through the radio.....

....no, I can't say I've ever heard a baseball game on radio match that kind of excitement.

The only way I like baseball is sitting in the stadium...on TV or radio, it's a bore.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:12 AM   #68
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Quote:
Using the single game attendance record to show how great the South supports hockey is a bit disingenous in light of all the facts, don't ya think? Not only because the base fact is false but because the circumstances were not uniform throughout the league.
True...point well taken. But I'm telling you that having lived there for 8 years, hockey was a huge deal there. I definitely knew more Lightning season ticket holders than I did Kings ticket holders when I lived in L.A. When I lived in NY, hockey was big there too, but not that much more considering you have 3 teams playing in the NYC television market.

I was just pointing out that the argument that hockey doesn't work in the south is bogus. Being in hot weather has no affect on how well hockey does. Aren't the Buffalo Sabres on the verge of bankruptcy about every season?

Quote:
Tampa Bay is one market and one exception in hockey, and that is because the team is good. Very good actually. When the FL Panthers got good people went, interest was up. But when they started to suck no one cared. It's because many people in Florida and Atlanta are from somewhere else. Their sports loyalties lie in NY, Boston, Chicago, etc.
I definitely saw that happen with the Devil Rays down there....everyone seemed to be a Yankees fan, but with hockey that didn't seem to be the case.

As for Tampa being a great team, look at their records from 94-02 when I lived there....they were average at best.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:27 AM   #69
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Hockey in the south and other non-traditional markets in many ways is out-performing many other regions. Tampa Bay, Atlanta, and not to mention DALLAS and COLORADO (well Denver may be a stretch to call it non-traditional). The latter two routinely sell out EVERY game. Heck I have read that in Dallas the team continues to sell out in spite of tickets that exceed $130-150 to sit in the lower bowl.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:55 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawred
Hockey in the south and other non-traditional markets in many ways is out-performing many other regions. Tampa Bay, Atlanta, and not to mention DALLAS and COLORADO (well Denver may be a stretch to call it non-traditional). The latter two routinely sell out EVERY game. Heck I have read that in Dallas the team continues to sell out in spite of tickets that exceed $130-150 to sit in the lower bowl.
I see what your saying, attendance was pretty strong in the "non-traditional" markets.
Check out the attendance stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004

Denver and Dallas were doing great, but their teams are good. Nashville (TV Market #30) and Carolina (TV Market #29) are really bad off, but they are smaller markets and the NHL took risk putting a team there. Tampa does have a big following, but Tampa is a pretty large market (TV Market #12), I always forget they are Florida's biggest TV Market.
All I'm saying is in the non-traditional markets attendance will be good when the team is good, when they sluff off people will slowing stop coming. We'll see what happens this season. Opening day isn't far off.

Jackinbox, I agree. The Yankees spring training games almost draw more than Devil Ray games. I've heard when Yankees or Red Sox are in town, it's a home game for the visiting team, not the Rays.
Another thing to consider about Tampa's hockey following is they don't have many other sports entertainment options. They have NO NBA team, Lost there MLS team, a terrible MLB team, just NFL. And the Bucs only play 16 days a year (excluding playoffs).
And I thought they called it the THUNDERDOME when the Lightning played in there?
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:26 AM   #71
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I love hockey but lets be real, its small niche sport that the majority of people dont really care about until there team gets into the playoffs.
If the team makes a run deep into it they will attract fans that dont really care or follow them until that, Then they will fall off next year if the team does not win the cup.

It would be cool if Sirius could and would have all the sports, the same as xm people probably hope the same, But how many subs do you think Sirus has got for the NHL? based on the numbers i would say not many, why would that change now? Do people really think all of a sudden tons of people are going to sign up. With the talent boom and offensive stars that played through the 80's up until a few years ago when the clutch and grab took over, if hockey didnt get a lot bigger through that i dont really see it getting much bigger now especially after shutting down for entire year.
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:48 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeDude
I love hockey but lets be real, its small niche sport that the majority of people dont really care about until there team gets into the playoffs.
You could be right in some towns. That would definitely not be the case in places like Boston, Detroit, Toronto, Montreal, etc.

But you know what... I sure as heck bet that there would be a run on XM receivers when some of those "last minute" fans run out to get Sat Radio when their team makes the playoffs.

This was WIN, WIN for XM and LOSE, LOSE for Sirius.

Geez, $100 million a year (I didnt even realize it was that much!!!) for some counter culture way past his prime washed-up shock jock. What if a demented "fan" were to bust a cap in his ass tommorrow?? So much for that deal.

If Stern is all he is cracked up to be, Sirius should see a BARE MINIMUM of 1 million NEW subs by March. That would be just a meager 10% of his purported 10 million DAILY AUDIENCE (ahem...BS...cough). If Sirius does NOT post obvious MAJOR GROWTH in the first quarter of 2006 they would be well advised to rethink the whole Stern thing and think about an early exit strategy from that deal.

That money would be better spent elsewhere..... Like maybe CEMENTING Exclusive Sports deals for those leagues now not locked up, cuz XM may have more of those rabbits up their sleeves.
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Old 09-15-2005, 01:17 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackinbox
I was just pointing out that the argument that hockey doesn't work in the south is bogus. Being in hot weather has no affect on how well hockey does.
I don't think it has a much to do with the weather as much as it has to do with the sports that are traditionally played in the area. That said, last couple of times I've been to Atlanta, I've seen alot of public parks with roller hockey rinks (not tennis courts, real rinks with boards and a scoreboard). What I would have done to have that growing up as a kid. And I lived in the suburbs of a pretty good hockey town, Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dconlive
I see what your saying, attendance was pretty strong in the "non-traditional" markets.
Check out the attendance stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2004
Take the avg attendance of the top teams and multiply it out to a 81 home game schedule and yer talking a million and a half people. There are alot of baseball teams that would like that kind of attendance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dconlive
And I thought they called it the THUNDERDOME when the Lightning played in there?
Yeah, I think they changed it not long after the moved in.
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:05 PM   #74
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I can't believe Sirius drop the ball on this one! I'm an NHL fan and enjoyed hearing it on Sirius. But now XM got hold of it. This will be the last year for NHL on Sirius I guess? But anyway, I sure hope Sirius can be the only satellite provider for the NBA?
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:11 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfViper
I can't believe Sirius drop the ball on this one! I'm an NHL fan and enjoyed hearing it on Sirius. But now XM got hold of it. This will be the last year for NHL on Sirius I guess? But anyway, I sure hope Sirius can be the only satellite provider for the NBA?
both xm and sirius will have nhl until 06-07 season....

NBA isnt exclusive to sirius.... xm has games on espn radio.. including playoffs.
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