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Old 08-04-2006, 12:37 PM   #1
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Default Just started to listen to Stern, what happened?

I was never really a big Stern fan. He had his moments, but I never liked always hearing him complain about the FCC and was always more into music. Since I now have Sirius, I thought I'd give him a chance again. I really enjoy the show now. Since he is free to do what he wants, I hear far less complaining and he actually puts on a GREAT show, I love it!

Anyway my question. I was listening the other day and heard them talk about Stuttering John and Jackie The Joke Man. What happened here? There's some real bad blood there. Is the problem with John because he left for the TOnight Show?

Please just let me know what happened. DOnt post if you're only going to say "He's a dick" or something like that. I'm curious to know what started this.
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nismo
I was never really a big Stern fan. He had his moments, but I never liked always hearing him complain about the FCC and was always more into music. Since I now have Sirius, I thought I'd give him a chance again. I really enjoy the show now. Since he is free to do what he wants, I hear far less complaining and he actually puts on a GREAT show, I love it!

Anyway my question. I was listening the other day and heard them talk about Stuttering John and Jackie The Joke Man. What happened here? There's some real bad blood there. Is the problem with John because he left for the TOnight Show?

Please just let me know what happened. DOnt post if you're only going to say "He's a dick" or something like that. I'm curious to know what started this.
No real bad blood with Jackie or John (well none that didn't exist on the show originally). John left to go to the Tonight Show and Howard hates Jay Leno because he didn't ask him if he could speak to John. It was all done behind Howard's back, by both Jay and John, but Howard doesn't blame John for taking the money, he just hates Jay for stealing another piece of the Show.

Jackie went into his usual "I neeeed more moneeeey" negotiations with Tom Chiusano and Tom called his bluff. Howard tried to warn Jackie that Tom was going to stand firm, but Jackie ignored him. There was a little animosity on Jackie's part because he thought Howard should have gone to bat for him, but he did not realize that Howard had gone to bat and he struck out with Tom, which is why Howard tried to warn Jackie. Jackie was just dumb, so any "bad blood" the show has with him is because he's an easy target for the crew.

Both were the impetus for long, drawn out "Sit in the Jackie Chair" and "Win John's Job" tryouts, which were won by Artie and Richard Christie, respectively.
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:18 PM   #3
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To say there is no bad blood isn't entirely true. Fred does not like John at all. And I remember one show saying that he has no respect for him how he handled the situation and his walking around the studio as if he were too good for anybody after he landed the job. He also noted how he felt that John had no appreciation for the people or show that got him there. Its all Howard...its not like John had some scary good talent. Plus, I could do his job at the Tonight Show...

But for the fans...I think we win. I'd take Artie over Jackie and I'd take Richard/Sal over John...no question.
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:52 PM   #4
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Both are excellent responses.

And I get the feeling there's a little animosity on Robin's behalf with regard to Jackie. I don't think Robin really liked him much when he was actually on the show, but she has that Fred thing... both she and Fred are extremely loyal to the show, and when others start dicking around they tend to take it personally.


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Old 08-04-2006, 02:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by oren
Both are excellent responses.

And I get the feeling there's a little animosity on Robin's behalf with regard to Jackie. I don't think Robin really liked him much when he was actually on the show, but she has that Fred thing... both she and Fred are extremely loyal to the show, and when others start dicking around they tend to take it personally.


Oren
You're right about Fred and Robin. They both seem to harbor some bad feelings towards John and Jackie for not being loyal to the show. I was glad to see John go since I couldn't stand that guy and I think Rich and Sal bring SO much more to the table. I was recently listening to the 12/15/05 show where Jackie came on. They talked a bit about how Fred and Robin feel about how he just turned his back ont he show and walked away, but they are still on good enough terms to have lunch with each other once and a while.

I've said before that the show is just as good or better without Jackie - and I still think that's true - but that 12/15 appearence was freaking GOLD. It was really like old times and was an awesome interview that made me miss having Jackie in the studio every day. The show is still better with him gone (in spite of his departure, not because of it) and it would be awesome to have him back on the show in some capacity.
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Old 08-04-2006, 02:57 PM   #6
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Great responses...most covered. One more thing...after JOhn took the job...Jay called Howard and made comments about them not paying JOhn. Howard basically said, 'What the fuck does that have to do with anything?' Stern basically told him he was a dick...and STern makes fun of Jay even more now.
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Old 08-04-2006, 04:12 PM   #7
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Yeah, everyone is correct about the Fred and Robin thing, I was just addressing Howard. Good call on the loyalty, Robin and Fred are like a lioness protecting her cubs when it comes to the Show. Robin will attack someone she thinks is threatening Howard, even if Howard does not care. Look at what she did to Spike Lee when he accused her of being loyal to Howard and disloyal to her race. He got both barrels of one pissed off Robin (and she basically said she was more loyal to Howard than her race). To this day, if anyone mentions Spike Lee, Robin just fumes.
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Old 08-04-2006, 05:05 PM   #8
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This is why I can't wait until they start playing the old tapes. I'm a new listener, too (I would watch the E! show and saw Private Parts, but that's it), and I can't wait to get caught up on what I've missed.
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Old 08-04-2006, 06:09 PM   #9
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There is plenty of bad blood between John and Howard. Howard isn't overt about it but he didn't like the shady dealings employed by John. What's funny about this is, you could almost say Howard did the same thing with CBS, because he wasn't exactly upfront about his negotiations with XM and Sirius. As they say, perception is everything and Howard is a very, "do as I say and not as I do" kind of guy.

Jackie was just dumb and he didn't go onto bigger and better things, so he is much easier to "forgive".... at least in Howard's world. Howard comes off as not being the jealous type... and sometimes he might actually believe it... but it's just not true. I can even hear the sound of the green eyed monster behind his voice when talking to Artie about all of the stuff he has going on. Artie is just very good at reading that and properly inserting "it's because of this show", into the conversation ten to thirty times.
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Old 08-04-2006, 07:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice
There is plenty of bad blood between John and Howard. Howard isn't overt about it but he didn't like the shady dealings employed by John. What's funny about this is, you could almost say Howard did the same thing with CBS, because he wasn't exactly upfront about his negotiations with XM and Sirius. As they say, perception is everything and Howard is a very, "do as I say and not as I do" kind of guy.
Justice, if you google stuttering john or john melendez he says Howard still sends them gifts on special occasions and they haven't lost contact. John says that Howard has directed 100% of his anger toward Jay Leno over this incident and holds no ill will toward him (John).

Howard says pretty much the same thing.

Stern didn't do the same thing with his dealings with Sirius prior to leaving CBS. He made it very clear that he was deeply unhappy with CBS while he was there, he explained why (10,001 times) and CBS did zero about it. So he left.

I am not saying that John handled the situation well with regard to his departure, but if I were John I would've done the same thing under the circumstances. He was there for 15 years, I'd say, he wasn't being paid well and wasn't being offered any new opportunities. I think the writing was on the wall.


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Old 08-04-2006, 07:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tan
This is why I can't wait until they start playing the old tapes. I'm a new listener, too (I would watch the E! show and saw Private Parts, but that's it), and I can't wait to get caught up on what I've missed.
Welcome to the board, Tan! As you've probably discovered by now, the E! show wasn't representative of what the show is really like. They covered T&A mostly even though the actual shows weren't largely about that.

You'll have a lot of catching up to do! And it's great that more and more people are now able to hear the REAL show. Enjoy!


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Old 08-04-2006, 07:27 PM   #12
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Old 08-04-2006, 07:35 PM   #13
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This is a very good Howard Stern board. People actually answer questions and give some insight. Blows the SternFanNetwork away, anyway. Thank you to everyone who responsed. I really just started listening to Stern in January. And I am addicted. Thanks for the insight in these responses...
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oren
Justice, if you google stuttering john or john melendez he says Howard still sends them gifts on special occasions and they haven't lost contact. John says that Howard has directed 100% of his anger toward Jay Leno over this incident and holds no ill will toward him (John).

Howard says pretty much the same thing.

Stern didn't do the same thing with his dealings with Sirius prior to leaving CBS. He made it very clear that he was deeply unhappy with CBS while he was there, he explained why (10,001 times) and CBS did zero about it. So he left.

I am not saying that John handled the situation well with regard to his departure, but if I were John I would've done the same thing under the circumstances. He was there for 15 years, I'd say, he wasn't being paid well and wasn't being offered any new opportunities. I think the writing was on the wall.


Oren
I'm going to say the following:

1. Showbiz kissy face aint reality
2. What Howard did and what John did are exactly the same thing... it's shady PERIOD
3. These two have never expressed any kind of public mutual admiration. If Howard was proud of him it would be public... this is just tolerance plain and simple.
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:55 PM   #15
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One thing to consider about the "going to bat" card element that is lost on most fans. Robin, Fred and Howard ALL SHARE THE SAME AGENT. Jackie's paranoia and bad business dealing directed him toward his eventual downfall. Jackie went through this process more than once. Ultimately, it's Jackie's fault. However, had Jackie been part of the Buchwald stable of clients, I think he would STILL BE ON THE SHOW.

I'm soooo f'ing sick of the "I love artie, Jackie sucks" camp. It's sooo tired. Jackie was great for the show. He made Billy West funny and HE MADE HOWARD FUNNY. Howard is a quick guy, not as quick as he was, but he's still got a lot on the ball. Jackie knew Howard's sensibilities and tailor made jokes for him at the drop of a hat. People can recognize how funny Artie is now because they can hear Artie. Howard's voice wasn't the only thing that changed through the years, his delivery, his timing, and his humor changed dramatically when JACKIE LEFT THE SHOW.

Moving on...

Stuttering John was great for the first few years. His interviews still stand as some of the most gut wrenching/uncomfortable/hilarious parts of the KROCK/Channel 9 shows. Once Stuttering John became complacent at his job he became something like a Stuttering Ralph. All he did was tattle on people and twist people's words (see Sal) so there would be controversy on the air.

By the time Leno cherry picked John from the show, it was really time for John to go anyway. Leno's remarks about Howard not being able to pay him were certainly a low blow to Howard, even though they were very true.

So now instead of paying a comedy writer to write bits and 'hero of the stupid' on the red carpet, we have a heavy metal drummer and gay stock broker shocking their balls and making phoney phone calls.

One isn't better than the other...well, I'm fudging on that a bit. I enjoy the show now, but I loved it back in the day. To each their own.
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