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Old 01-09-2007, 12:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I never said it did. This topic is about Howard's bonus and stockholders' losses, not Sirius vs. XM.
What don't you understand about Howard's bonus having nothing to do with the stock price? Beyond that, his bonus was based on subscriber numbers, not stock performance.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I understand your point, and agree with you, for the most part. However, the topic I started was about Howard's bonus amount and Sirius stock, not a market analysis of competing product's stock.

You were making an equivalency between Howard's bonus and Sirius stock, which is a strawman argument. Why? Because you can't say what good/bad things Sirius would have done with the money if it had not gone to Howard, thus you can't say the cash would have been given back to investors. More importantly, you can't say the money would be there to re-invest or distribute to investors if Howard had not been signed to the contract in the first place. A better analysis is to compare the performance of the Sirius stock with the performance of a similar company in the same market.

Hmmm, know of any?
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:37 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by badmotherfarker
What don't you understand about Howard's bonus having nothing to do with the stock price? Beyond that, his bonus was based on subscriber numbers, not stock performance.
I understand why the bonus was paid. I posted the original article, remember? I wasn't comparing the bonus to anything. I simply asked how others felt about such a high one-time payout being made while common stock price has fallen over the past year's time. Simple enough, no?
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I understand your point, and agree with you, for the most part. However, the topic I started was about Howard's bonus amount and Sirius stock, not a market analysis of competing product's stock.
He hit the mark that was set in his contract. He gets his bonus. Done deal pal. Are you jealous or something? When is your subscription up? We will start a countdown to the day you stage your "I'll show you, I'm canceling" exit.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:48 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jgatie
You were making an equivalency between Howard's bonus and Sirius stock, which is a strawman argument. Why? Because you can't say what good/bad things Sirius would have done with the money if it had not gone to Howard, thus you can't say the cash would have been given back to investors. More importantly, you can't say the money would be there to re-invest or distribute to investors if Howard had not been signed to the contract in the first place. A better analysis is to compare the performance of the Sirius stock with the performance of a similar company in the same market.

Hmmm, know of any?
I believe you are missing the point. Howard deserves the money. He exceeded subscription numbers and rightfully received his bonus.

I'm presenting the view of a common stockholder, who has watched an investment lose value over the course of a year. That same company then pays one person a substantial bonus, despite heavy losses within the company. Kind of like the golden parachute stories you hear about sometimes. That's all. No flaming, just a discussion topic.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:48 PM   #36
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They didn't give him $83 million, they gave him 22 million shares of stock. He is affected by the stock price just like all the investors. Just like most incentives, they are paid because the performance pays for the incentive and then some. Am I supposed to be comcerned that someone put money in a speculative venture?


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Sirius said in a statement that it paid Stern slightly more than 22 million shares of stock after exceeding a year-end subscriber goal for 2006 by more than two million.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Markz
He hit the mark that was set in his contract. He gets his bonus. Done deal pal. Are you jealous or something? When is your subscription up? We will start a countdown to the day you stage your "I'll show you, I'm canceling" exit.
My subscription is up soon, but I'm not canceling. There are other shows on Sirius that are worth the price. Sorry, no stage show.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:52 PM   #38
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Good for Howard! I wish I had 22 million shares...
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I believe you are missing the point. Howard deserves the money. He exceeded subscription numbers and rightfully received his bonus.

I'm presenting the view of a common stockholder, who has watched an investment lose value over the course of a year. That same company then pays one person a substantial bonus, despite heavy losses within the company. Kind of like the golden parachute stories you hear about sometimes. That's all. No flaming, just a discussion topic.
No YOU are missing the point. The "common stockholders", unlike you, know better than to make the assumption that every dollar that goes to Stern's bonus means a dollar comes out of their collective stock value. There simply is no equivalency, no matter how much you try to say there is. And this has nothing to do with the "golden parachute" stories. They are awarded regardless of performance and are typically awarded after the high price CEO bolts for another company or retirement. Howard has performed, he's not a CEO and he's not leaving the company. Put simply, your "point" has no "point".
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScionicMan
They didn't give him $83 million, they gave him 22 million shares of stock. He is affected by the stock price just like all the investors. Just like most incentives, they are paid because the performance pays for the incentive and then some. Am I supposed to be comcerned that someone put money in a speculative venture?
Zzzzzzactly!
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgatie
No YOU are missing the point. The "common stockholders", unlike you, know better than to make the assumption that every dollar that goes to Stern's bonus means a dollar comes out of their collective stock value. There simply is no equivalency, no matter how much you try to say there is. And this has nothing to do with the "golden parachute" stories. They are awarded regardless of performance and are typically awarded after the high price CEO bolts for another company or retirement. Howard has performed, he's not a CEO and he's not leaving the company. Put simply, your "point" has no "point".
My point has no point only because you do not agree (or understand) it.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:23 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
My point has no point only because you do not agree (or understand) it.
What is your point?
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
My point has no point only because you do not agree (or understand) it.
I understand your point. You are saying that the average stockholder should feel cheated, upset, undervalued, underappreciated or any number of a myriad of unpositive feelings over the comparison of undervalued stock to an $83 million incentive payout. You are simplifying the relationship between stock performance and Stern's bonus to reflect upon your negative view of Stern's bonus. You are assuming that the average stockholder feels the same. I have explained a dozen ways from Sunday why that assumption is neither fair nor correct and the only defense you have is to say I don't agree with and/or understand your point.

How about you tell me exactly why a Sirius stockholder should feel Stern's bonus is causative towards the devaluation of stock? Until then, your point has no point, whether you feel I agree/understand it or not.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I'm not a Sirius investor,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
I'm presenting the view of a common stockholder,

Also while your presenting views, why dont you tell us the view of what its like to be the president of the US.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:52 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die_LaMattres
It was reported today that Howard received an 83 million dollar bonus for exceeding subscription numbers. Not bad for a part-time gig.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16539806/


For those of you that have Sirius stock, as of today, the value has decreased 45% from a year ago. All jokes and insults aside, how does that make you feel knowing that one lone person has reaped everything while the small-time investors and loyal supporters are out nearly half of their investment amount?
If you bought stock like me, you knew that is was a speculative play. Did you expect Howard or any of the other big fish to throw you a bone because they are making money and you are not ? I am Sirius long and I hope that Howard and all the others keep making money hand over foot, that only means that Sirius is meeting its goals and that one day I too will benefit.
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