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Old 05-25-2006, 01:12 PM   #1
djd3d
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Default Canadian radio on a US sub?

Wonedering if anyone has actually added a Canadian radio to a US Sub?..I have a relative that wants me to add his Canadian bought radio to my exsisting US subscription....
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Old 05-27-2006, 05:09 AM   #2
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I actually got a Cdn starmate radio for christmas 2005 (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Pr...roduct=1219672)
and in early Feb, I got rid of my cdn sub and got a US sub using my friends address in GA. I thought I would get all the US channels as well but the only thing that changed was I now had sound on the Sirius Preview/Weather channel (ch. 184) I still didnt get Howard 101 or other "US only" stations.

About a couple of weeks after switching to a US sub I ditched my cdn sat radio receiver and bought a Streamer GTR (Black starmate replay - http://www.dogstarradios.com/sistgtretuca.html) from a US store and now I receive all the US channels too and am very happy with it

I guess theres some chip in the cdn receivers that blocks out certain US channels - I dont know why cause the way I look at it if I'm paying for this sat radio sub stuff then I wanna get all that Sirius offers

anyways hope this helps
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Old 05-27-2006, 12:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmartin
I guess theres some chip in the cdn receivers that blocks out certain US channels - I dont know why cause the way I look at it if I'm paying for this sat radio sub stuff then I wanna get all that Sirius offers
I don't think that anyone is currently getting "all that Sirius offers". My understanding is that US market receivers do not currently receive 185-197 while Canadian receivers do receive those channels. And Canadian receivers do not receive some of the US streams.

Part of the reason for this is related to advertising and market rights.

Some of the channels have advertising. The content providers sell the advertising. Prices for advertising tend to increase when the advertising goes to more listeners. Adding the channel to the Canadian service would increase the number of listeners. Advertisers don't want to pay increased costs to advertise into a market where they don't sell. Even international companies like Sony have domestic operations, so there would be little motivation for Sony USA to pay increased advertising costs to advertise into Sony Canada's marketplace.

Some media content is also licensed for sale into a specific market. Take a look at any DVD. It will likely say that it is licensed for sale in the US and Canada only. Some other DVD producer would be licensed for sale in Mexico, yet another for sale in Britain, etc.

So some of the program content on some channels may have broadcast rights only for the US or only for Canada.

And alwasy remember. Sirius (US) is only a minority shareholder in Sirius (Canada). So people aren't really buying the same product from the same people when they buy Sirius (Canada) or Sirius (US).
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Old 05-27-2006, 09:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie Gorrie
I don't think that anyone is currently getting "all that Sirius offers".
Sorry Mr. Technical (I know you were just offering your two cents, but damn!?!) - In my opnion Sirius USA offers a lot more channels than Sirius CAN mostly thanks to the crappy cdn gov't. Thats why I ditched my Cdn sub for a US sub - Seems to me Canada is usually 2 or 3 years behind the USA in some aspects of the technology market (i.e. Sat Radio)

Last edited by tjmartin; 05-27-2006 at 09:47 PM..
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Old 05-27-2006, 09:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie Gorrie
And alwasy remember. Sirius (US) is only a minority shareholder in Sirius (Canada). So people aren't really buying the same product from the same people when they buy Sirius (Canada) or Sirius (US).
Oh and while we're on this technical BS - your statement above is not true - It is Sirius CAN that is a minority shareholder of Sirius USA - If I do remember correctly Sirius USA came out a few years before it did here in Canada...

Also remember Sirius CAN is also using the same US satellites )
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Old 05-28-2006, 01:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmartin
Oh and while we're on this technical BS - your statement above is not true - It is Sirius CAN that is a minority shareholder of Sirius USA - If I do remember correctly Sirius USA came out a few years before it did here in Canada...

Also remember Sirius CAN is also using the same US satellites )
Actually he was correct. Sirius (US) is only a 20% owner of Sirius Canada. The other 80 is owned by the CBC (40%) and Standard Broadcasting (40%).

And while Sirius Canada uses the same satellites and the same name/logo, all of that is easily licensed...which I assume Sirius (US) granted in exchange for the 20% stake.

As an aside; XM Canada is the same; it's actual name is Canadian Satellite Radio Inc and trades on the TSX. It's majority owner is John Bitove, not XM (US).
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Old 05-28-2006, 02:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmartin
Sorry Mr. Technical (I know you were just offering your two cents, but damn!?!) - In my opnion Sirius USA offers a lot more channels than Sirius CAN mostly thanks to the crappy cdn gov't.
Take a look at the comparision chart at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Radio_stations

You will find that, aside from 11 US-specific traffic and weather channels, Sirius US carries 11 channels that Sirius Canada does not carry. 67/68 are Christian music. 85 is opera. 113 is women's talk. 144/146 are US policital talk. 183 is Radio Korea. 122 is US sports talk. 182 is sports in Spanish. 139 is CSPAN.

I don't think that most observers would consider that to be "a lot", either in number or in terms of content of interest to most Canadians. There are six channels available in Canada that are not available from Sirius US, for a net effective difference of five.
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Old 05-28-2006, 08:08 AM   #8
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Here's a recent article that gives some detail on sat radio in Canada and the ownership issue is included. Sorry if it's a bit incomplete, but I was restricted on how many characters I could enter.

SATELLITE RADIO LAUNCHES IN CANADA
by: DAPHNE LAVERS

Two new satellite radio services fired up in Canada in the last quarter of 2005, pumping up Christmas sales for electronics retailers and expanding the Canadian radio broadcasting universe.

XM Canada and Sirius Canada — called satellite digital audio radio service, short form "satellite DARS" or "SDARS" — both offer to Canadian listeners the commercial-free, multi-channel mobile audio experience available in the United States for several years. In a country the size of Canada, where residents travel frequently, satellite radio on car trips will eliminate en route dial hunting, chasing a particular station or a particular kind of music during the trip.


Satellite radio also promises to reshape the Canadian radio industry and to shake up the music industry.


The process leading to launch of service in Canada followed the frustrating pattern of a video shoot — hurry-up-and-wait. Initial applications were filed in 2003, regulatory hearings by the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) were held in November of 2004. The CRTC issued its decision in June of 2005, licensing the two satellite radio services partnered with their American genesis companies, together with a Canadian applicant, CHUM, for a subscription DAB radio service. A federal appeal launched almost immediately was turned down in September of 2005, which meant all three services were approved, and the satellite radio companies scrambled to launch before Christmas.


Both services did launch before Christmas. And while both offer commercial-free, near-CD audio quality, the two services are somewhat different in their channel line-up and pricing, and substantially different in their corporate structure, physical structure and in technical delivery of service.


Sirius Canada


Sirius Canada’s satellite radio service will be distributed by American partner Sirius Satellite Radio, approved for service in the U.S. in October 1997, with studios and master control in New York and satellite uplink facilities in Vernon Valley, New Jersey. According to the CRTC decision licensing Sirius Canada, the company is private, and owned 40% by Canada’s national broadcaster, CBC, 40% by Toronto-based Standard Radio Inc., and 20% by Sirius Satellite Radio Inc.


At $14.99 a month subscription fee, Sirius is the more expensive of the two satellite radio services, but Sirius offers 100 channels of which 10 are Canadian.


And with two high-powered Canadian broadcasters as partners, the Sirius Canada operation didn’t need to construct new studios prior to launch.


With main offices in uptown Toronto, Standard Radio is touted as Canada’s largest private radio broadcast network. In addition to approximately 60 stations across the country, Standard also owns Iceberg Media/Iceberg Radio, an online radio portal with over 250 channels across a variety of music. Standard also owns SoundSource, a radio services and radio syndication house.


“We’re making use of our existing infrastructure to some extent,” said Dave Simon, vice president of engineering for Standard. “Between Sound Source and the radio station there’s 14 control rooms in this building and we’re making use of those facilities... We’ve added additional playback/play-out and automation systems to handle the stream and deal with the meta-data for displaying artists (and information) on the receivers. There’s not one dedicated control room at this point, but as we go further into it we’ll see how the scheduling goes and we may add additional facilities. So far it’s going fairly smoothly, we’ve been able to leverage off our existing infrastructure.”


CBC is also using existing facilities, said Ray Carnovale, CBC’s vice president and chief technology officer, so the national broadcaster was not subject to major upheavals to build new facilities. Radio Three, which originated as an Internet radio service, is being transformed into a satellite radio service, uplinked out of Vancouver studios. Radio One, another specific satellite radio service and not a rebroad/simulcast of the existing Radio One, is out of Toronto, and CBC Montreal studios will originate several programming channels, including Radio Canada International, each specifically designed for satellite radio.


XM Canada


XM Canada’s satellite radio service will be distributed by American partner XM Radio Inc., also approved for service in the U.S. in October, 1997, with studios, master control and uplink facilities located in Washington, D.C. XM Canada is in some respects more complicated corporately.


Canadian Satellite Radio Inc. (CSR) was granted its licence by the CRTC and operates in Canada as XM Canada. CSR is owned by Canadian entrepreneur John Bitove, former head of the Toronto Olympic bid who also owns Obelisk Funds and the franchise group Prizm, which holds the master franchise for Kentucky Fried Chicken.


Canadian Satellite Radio Holdings Inc. (CSR) is the operator of XM Canada satellite radio and it was the holding company that filed a preliminary prospectus in November for an initial public offering (IPO), “to fund XM Canada deployment and broadcast facility build-out” according to the financial announcement. The initial IPO, issued in early December, valued shares at $16 and the company at $800 million, a share price and total which dropped slightly following the IPO.


The application filed with the CRTC described a Memorandum of Understanding that would allow XM Satellite Radio Inc., the American operator, to acquire a percentage of the Canadian operation. The U.S. XM could acquire, at a future unspecified time, either 33% of the Canadian holding company or 16.6% of the holding company and 20% of XM Canada.


The XM monthly subscription fee was set at $12.99 a month for 80 channels of programming. Eight of those channels are Canadian.


Satellites and Orbits


One of the key differences between the two companies lies in their use of satellite technology. Both operate in S-band, around the 2 Gigahertz frequencies which are below the conventional satellite television frequencies operating mostly in the 6/4 Gigahertz frequency range. Both are using satellites dedicated to radio distribution and both are using audio encoding and multiplexing techniques that neither wished to detail.


Sirius uses three Space Systems/Loral 1300 satellites simply called Sirius 1, 2 and 3. The three satellites were launched in 2000, and Sirius also ordered a fourth as a spare.


XM’s two Boeing 702-series satellites, built by Boeing Satellite Systems with payloads manufactured by Alcatel Space, are named Rock and Roll, launched in 2001. Boeing Satellite Systems says that the XM satellites are among the most powerful satellites ever built, with Rock and Roll having total spacecraft power of 18 kilowatts, with two active transponders generating approximately 3,000 watts of radio frequency power and continent-wide footprints.


XM also ordered a third, spare satellite which was launched into orbit in 2005. Because of a technical problem with a solar array, one satellite operates at half power with XM-3 now operating in conjunction with the half-power satellite, reportedly named Rhythm. A fourth XM satellite was ordered in August 2003, scheduled for delivery last year and a contract for XM-5 was awarded in the second quarter of 2005.


But the critical difference lies in the orbits.


XM’s satellites were placed into geostationary, geosynchronous orbit at the equator. That’s considered a prime orbital position for virtually any satellite because spacecraft in that orbit move at the same rate of speed as the Earth, and appear stationary overhead. That’s also the same orbit where all Canada’s television broadcast satellites are located.


The three Sirius satellites are in what’s called an elliptical orbit. To simplify, the three satellites move in sequence along a north/south figure 8 that stretches from north of the Arctic circle to well below the equator into the Pacific. The two sections of the figure 8 are unequal; the top half of the figure 8 over North America is narrow while the bottom half is wide. At any given time, two of the Sirius satellites are operational above North America while one is traversing the lower portion of the orbit.


The Sirius satellites also change height, or distance from the Earth, along their orbital path. At the highest point, the satellite apogee is 46,983 km. over North America while at its lowest point or perigee, over the Pacific, it is 23,975 km. above the Earth’s surface.



.





Senior Writer Daphne Lavers is a Toronto-based freelancer. She may be reached by e-mail at dlavers@passport.ca.
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Old 05-28-2006, 08:53 AM   #9
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Placing satellites "over head" allows you to receive them more easily in urban areas where the signal would be blocked by tall buildings.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/doc...ius-satellites

On a related note, I just returned from a vacation in Cancun, Mexico and my Sirius Canadian Subscription worked properly (so this should dismiss any myths about separate signals.) The only difference between Canadian and American radios is that the SID (Sirius Identification number) are know to Sirius-Canada which means that “they” can invoke content-control in you radio which prevents it from passing a signal to the listener. To date, content-control by Sirius-Canada has been totally voluntary and some have suggested that this was necessary to get it past CRTC regulators. Since this subscription-based service went live in Canada, there have been no official complaints sent to the CRTC and so Sirius-Canada has been slowly opening the flow of more content (10 new channel to be enabled in June-2006)

Neil Rieck
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Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/

Last edited by neilrieck; 05-28-2006 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 05-29-2006, 07:40 AM   #10
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I'll stick with my Sirius USA service thank you. I have no interest as to what those Cdn channels have on them - I dont like the idea of the gov't here shoving Cdn content in my face - If I wanna listen to Cdn content, then i should have the right to choose to do so, not be forced to listen to it.

If Sirius Canada wants to be truely Canadian then why not they come up with their own satellite service that broadcasts on their own satellites and also change the company name - seems to me all they have to do is add Canada to any US company name and its automatically Canadian....to me that doesnt make much sense
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Old 05-29-2006, 10:10 AM   #11
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ALLLLRIGHTYTHEN.......Getting back to the original question....I'm just happy not having to listen to bland radio anymore and don't care WHAT feed I get on this Cdn bought radio....I just need to know if they (Sirius US) will allow a Cdn radio to be subbed to my US account.....what they throw at me for programming does not much matter........any one REALLY know??
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Old 05-29-2006, 12:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djd3d
ALLLLRIGHTYTHEN.......Getting back to the original question....I'm just happy not having to listen to bland radio anymore and don't care WHAT feed I get on this Cdn bought radio....I just need to know if they (Sirius US) will allow a Cdn radio to be subbed to my US account.....what they throw at me for programming does not much matter........any one REALLY know??
I would be surprised if either company would sell a second, low-cost subscription based on the consumer having a full price subscription from the other operation.

Remember that they are separate companies and consider the following math.

Assume a consumer with US subscription is paying Sirius US US$13/month. The consumer wants to add a Canadian subscription. Sirius US can't sell a Canadian subscription because they don't own Sirius Canada.

Sirius Canada won't sell the second subscription, because the person doesn't have a primary subscription from Sirius Canada.

If Sirius Canada were to sell the second subscription, they would receive only C$8.00 month instead of C$15/month (primary) plus C$8.00/month (secondary).

If Sirius US could sell the Canadian subscription they would receive only $1.60/month for it. This is because Sirius US owns only 20% of Sirius Canada.

Now, see my next message for an idea.
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Old 05-29-2006, 12:16 PM   #13
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Here is a message about getting the US channels with a Canadian subscription.

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=42809

It may be that Sirius just turns a radio on and it receives the channels based on whether the radio has the Canadian chipset or the US chipset.

If this is the case, I wonder whether you could buy a Canadian receiver, add it as a second subscription on a US subscription, and receive the Canadian channels.
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Old 05-29-2006, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmartin
I dont like the idea of the gov't here shoving Cdn content in my face - If I wanna listen to Cdn content, then i should have the right to choose to do so, not be forced to listen to it.
You may be confused about Sirius Canada. Subscribers are not forced to listen to Canadian content. In fact, users can even turn their radios off if they want to. This isn't George Orwell's 1984.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmartin
If Sirius Canada wants to be truely Canadian then why not they come up with their own satellite service that broadcasts on their own satellites and also change the company name - seems to me all they have to do is add Canada to any US company name and its automatically Canadian....to me that doesnt make much sense
Efficiency and brand recognition.

Sirius Canada is not a Canadian company because they appended the word Canada. It is a Canadian company because it is 80% Canadian owned.
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Old 05-29-2006, 04:11 PM   #15
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According to the research I did, I believe there is a so called G5 chipset inside the Canadian Sirius radios which allows Canadian subs to get all the channels the Americans can't. Don't take that to the bank though.
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