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Old 11-10-2003, 02:50 AM   #76
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Sirius SQ: Impressions after 1 week
 
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Agent86, thanks for your informative posts!

And welcome to Sirius Backstage

Hope you stick around to continue to share your experience and insights.
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Old 11-10-2003, 02:52 AM   #77
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I agree this has been a great thread... very enlightening. You never stop learning. ")
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Old 11-10-2003, 07:07 AM   #78
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Thanks Agent86. My head was starting to spin.

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Old 11-10-2003, 09:49 AM   #79
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When Sirius switches to AAC+ the first generation receivers will probably still work, there just won't be any treble (if SBR is fully implemented).

The company will have to replace (or pay off) these legacy receivers at the company's expense.
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Old 11-10-2003, 09:53 AM   #80
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Thanks for all the great research and replies!

Quote from Manco:
"Another thing that we know from both XM and Sirius is that they expect to get as many as 20 more streams out of the existing bandwidth over time as technology increases."

Will this offset any gains from a new codec? I am already happily overwhelmed with my existing 60 choices of music every day. I'd rather have the boost in quality than 20 more channels. Other than Celtic music (which a few here have asked for, and I agree that would be cool) what else could there possibly be? They seem to have their bases well covered already.
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Old 11-10-2003, 09:55 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clockcalibrator
When Sirius switches to AAC+ the first generation receivers will probably still work, there just won't be any treble (if SBR is fully implemented).

The company will have to replace (or pay off) these legacy receivers at the company's expense.
Well in that case the new codec might not be out for a while... I have been digging for any info I can on Clarion's second gen tuner, and the only thing I can find is different amont of months before it gets here. If this were to happen soon, all Clarion owners would be out of luck for some time.
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Old 11-10-2003, 10:54 AM   #82
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The owners of generation one equipment would not know a difference, unless they read it on this site. And I bet that's a small enough portion of the total ownership, that it wouldn't make much of a difference. And after all, thier radios would still work.
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Old 11-10-2003, 11:28 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MortySnerd
Quote from Manco:
"Another thing that we know from both XM and Sirius is that they expect to get as many as 20 more streams out of the existing bandwidth over time as technology increases."

Will this offset any gains from a new codec? I am already happily overwhelmed with my existing 60 choices of music every day. I'd rather have the boost in quality than 20 more channels. Other than Celtic music (which a few here have asked for, and I agree that would be cool) what else could there possibly be? They seem to have their bases well covered already.
I suspect they would try to maintain existing sound quality but add more channels. If one company adds 20 streams and the other doesn't, I'm afraid most customers will buy the one that gives them the most programming assuming the sound was at current quality levels. So competition will lead them to both increase as quickly as possible.
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Old 11-10-2003, 02:41 PM   #84
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Great posts!

If Agent86 is right, and I believe everything he said and it makes perfect sense, this sounds pretty good for Sirius.

I think I'm going to surmise that Sirius will be switching to AAC+, and the 1st Gen receivers will be capable of playback of the AAC portion of the stream (but not the +). I'm sure this won't cause a huge problem because AAC in and of itself is a very good codec, and naturally people might think that the 2nd Gen receivers are supposed to sound better anyway. Besides, aren't the vast majority of subscribers using 2nd Gen hardware now? The "+" in AAC+ definetly helps out in the treble department, so those of us with 2nd Gen receivers will be able to enjoy the best Sirius SQ has to offer.

This is all just speculation of course, but if what Agent86 says is true, which I tend to believe, then it is hard to draw another conclusion. If AAC+ is backward compatible with AAC hardware, it would make sense to conclude that this "new codec upgrade" we are hearing about is in fact AAC+. Which, I'm sure some of you guys know, is *incredible* news for me since it's what I've been asking for (even though I'm completely open minded to the idea of new PAC's being better)!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if XM is squeezing 12 more music channels out of less total bandwidth with AAC+ versus PAC v4, and let's say Sirius switched to AAC+, complete with SPLEX technology, less music channels, and more total bandwidth, I honestly think folks we are talking full CD-quality radio. Or, at the very least, something that even the layman will be able to notice as a *significant* difference over XM. I think Sirius choosing to go with 60 music channels rather than 72 like XM will end up being a great selling point in the future, as it will allow much greater SQ. BTW I used to own XM, and we shouldn't feel bad about less channels since the Sirius programmers clearly know what they are doing if they can get a lineup, by many accounts, is *better* than XM with *less* space, since these extra XM channels are completely wasted on *crap* like tons of Latin channels and FM rebroadcasts; they even have an African music channel! I love XM: When I had it they gave me 15-20 stations of crap but only a few Dance stations.

I can't *wait* to hear when this codec upgrade happens though! *Very* excited!
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Old 11-10-2003, 02:43 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Clinard
The owners of generation one equipment would not know a difference, unless they read it on this site. And I bet that's a small enough portion of the total ownership, that it wouldn't make much of a difference. And after all, thier radios would still work.
You're right.

That being said, it's hard to conclude anything but that this "new codec" is in fact AAC+.

But again, if it's a version of PAC that kicks AAC+'s ass, I'm all for it. Either way, "upgrade=good."

But I do think we'll be listening to AAC+ audio in a few months, or whenever this upgrade happens (hopefully sooner rather than later).
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:00 PM   #86
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Yes, I'm sure about what I'm saying. What you thought was an XM codec upgrade was them simply switching from one codec to another. They had both the AAC and PAC codecs built into their chipset, and as you said, switched from PAC go AAC+. Their chipset decoders are not software upgradeable.

Regarding the Sirius channel change issue, my original comment only referred to the upgradeability of the decoder chipset, not other aspects of the receiver, such as the channel information which of course can be updated via satellite.

As far as your last comment goes, I don't believe Sirius nor XM "screwed themselves" when they didn't design an upgrade path in the decoders. The fact is, decoders are fairly robust devices and allow for upgradeability in the encoders, which is what both companies are taking advantage of in the search for better sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwickman
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusRon
Gen 1 and Gen 2 receivers are not software upgradeable (same as our competitor's receivers). Any improvements in the codec are being done on the encoding side.
Are you sure about this? What's the source? You work at Sirius but in PR.

BTW I *owned* XM through one of their codec upgrades, so don't tell me that XM's receivers aren't software (via satellite) upgradeable. I had XM when they were using PAC, and then saw the "Updating..." message happened on my receiver and the upgrade happen right in front of my eyes (and ears!) when they switched to AAC+SBR.

If Sirius units are not software upgradeable, how could they make channel changes to our receivers?

BTW I'm not necessarily disputing you because for all I know you know something I don't, but if what you say is true, Sirius totally and completely screwed themselves IMO. I *do* know for a fact that even the Gen1 XM receivers were codec software upgradeable--I saw it for myself. It took about 3 minutes of "Updating..." on my XM receiver and BAM!, AAC+SBR bliss ensued.
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:04 PM   #87
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Cool SiriusRon! Thanks for the info! Sorry I had to be skeptical but it went again everything I had read earlier. Learn something new everyday!

Any idea when this new codec switch is going to happen at Sirius? I'm looking forward to it. Wouldn't mind a rough ballpark of when this might happen so I know when to listen. I'd like to hear the actual switch happen--audio codecs fascinate me.

Either way, though, will Sirius release a PR when this switch happens?
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:10 PM   #88
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That's okay, I didn't elaborate very much in my first post and I undersand why you were skeptical. Unfortunately I can't say a whole lot about codec changes in advance ... but stay tuned!
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Old 11-10-2003, 06:12 PM   #89
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Well, either way, this is EXCELLENT news! I cancelled Sirius once due to SQ, but it looks like this won't happen again. I'm definetly optimistic.
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Old 11-11-2003, 03:18 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TulaneJeff
joker,
It's a bit difficult to follow your thoughts, I really don't see what the big fuss it about. You are lumping multiple people's observations together and discrediting their separate thoughts as a whole.
Good god, I didn't expect so many follow up posts in one night! Well this is a bit late, but the basic jist is that I just got tired of always hearing of supposed improvements, yet somehow I'm never able to hear them on my end. For example, I'm one of the few it seems that noticed no difference going from the 901 to the 902. I do notice occaisional differences from day to day, but I noticed that on both decoders.

Anyways, this new encoder talk is good news. Of course, if it doesn't pan out, then someone is gonna get an ass whoopin
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