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Old 08-29-2005, 10:39 AM   #16
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I'm with Adam on this. For my Ram I use the casstte input, it sounds way better that the Fm modulator. For my other car, it has a Pioneer cd, I bought tha aux adapter and the sound can't be better. All depends on your setup.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:02 AM   #17
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This thread illustrates why people who care about sound quality these days are screwed. We will never see better sound quality, because lots of listeners not only here, but in all boards I've been to where this topic is discussed, believe that what they hear is "better" than FM. Always, I repeat ALWAYS, on even the best sounding stations, on even the least demanding music, on even the best quality receivers connected directly to head units or home systems - sat radio IS worse than FM. The fact that both Sirius and XM are crap compared to properly done FM is not disputable, regardless of how it may sound to you on your own radio. You are entitled to an opinion on everything, but that does not change things. It is a fact that the bandwidth that the best channels on sat radio are allocated is less than 64 kbps, which is less than half of what the minimum quality for music on your iPod generally is. FM stations use much higher quality sources and with the allocated bandwidth they can (and most of them do) produce much, much better sound than what Sirius/XM can.
The fact that this is "good enough" for majority of listeners and they want more channels and less quality, will push Sirius and XM to drive sound quality even further down in the future. What annoys me most is not that people are willing to accept this, but that they believe lies and spread them.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:12 AM   #18
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Arthur, is there any reason to believe that a 64K Sirius/XM stream doesn't sound significantly better than a 64K mp3 file? Also, when you state that Sirius/XM do not sound better than an FM radio station how are you measuring this?
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:25 AM   #19
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SQ is less important to me than variety. Sat radio is probably less a service for audiophiles and more a service for fans of music.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:31 AM   #20
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I'm certain that XM/Sirius 64kbps is better than MP3 64 kbps. Ogg Vorbis sounds pretty damn good at even 45 kbps. Sirius/XM would be insane to use the fairly antiquated MP3 codec.

Count me in as someone who thinks FM (static aside) sounds better than satellite radio. For me it's the lack of digital artifacts. The compression can really screw up the sound stage. FM just sounds more expansive and crisp. Hearing cymbals on satellite radio is painful. They sound so horrible at whatever compression rate Sirius uses. I always point out the sound of cymbals when people tell me they can't hear compression artifacts.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:46 AM   #21
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The sound quality is very good in my car. Many of these tuners use FM modulators and are not optomized for your specific stereo. The Sirius tuner translates the digital signal to analog and then transmits it through FM where your stereo translates the FM signal through to your speakers. So sound quality suffers from all this. A direct connection will give you better sound quality and better yet, a quality stereo that is Sirius-ready will give very good sound quality. People who already have Sirius listen to my car stereo and are usually impressed.
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Old 08-29-2005, 12:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd
Arthur, is there any reason to believe that a 64K Sirius/XM stream doesn't sound significantly better than a 64K mp3 file? Also, when you state that Sirius/XM do not sound better than an FM radio station how are you measuring this?
Yes, a 64 kbps Sirius/XM stream (AAC) does sound marginally better than 64 kbps mp3, but not much better and nowhere near 128 kbps mp3.

Most FM stations use much higher bitrate digital sources before transmitting the analog FM signal. I won't go in details, if you are interested, check the XM/Sirius Satellite Radio section at avsforum.com, there is a very useful thread there with explanations from insiders.
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:21 PM   #23
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I don't think anyone knows what bitrate Sirius is. The original idea was that is sounds similar to a 64k MP3... which is true.

I have been complaining about SQ for years and nothing makes a difference with most peoples self convincing minds. Sirius needs to take that new bandwidth that was freed up with the new CODEC and use it to increase SQ and screw more stations.

Its hard to care about additional content after Sirius continues to shrink my favor genre of Music after every update. Dance music..
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonger1150
I don't think anyone knows what bitrate Sirius is. The original idea was that is sounds similar to a 64k MP3... which is true.

I have been complaining about SQ for years and nothing makes a difference with most peoples self convincing minds. Sirius needs to take that new bandwidth that was freed up with the new CODEC and use it to increase SQ and screw more stations.

Its hard to care about additional content after Sirius continues to shrink my favor genre of Music after every update. Dance music..
I don't believe they can use the new bandwidth to improve the current channels. This bandwidth is piggy backed onto the current bandwidth using a completely different method than what is currently in use. Hence the reason the current receivers won't be able to receive it.
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Old 08-29-2005, 04:19 PM   #25
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You can throw all the bandwidth you want for sound quality, I'm still not listening if I can't hear the kind of music/information/programming I want to hear.

Satellite Radio delivers that to me. I have my home unit connected to my home theatre via Optical Cable... and I think it sounds great. I have an FM Modulator in the car, and yes, I can tell sometimes it isn't the best, but I live with it.
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Old 08-29-2005, 06:04 PM   #26
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The thing is, if you know anything about analog vs. digital you'll know that analog always sounds (or looks) better because it isn't compressed at all. For a bunch of smart people, you should have probably known that when signing up for any satellite radio subscription if it was important to you.
That being said, I get crappy FM reception at my house. FM sounds terrible with reception problems, this doesn't exist with Sirius. So functionally Sirius sounds better than FM for me. At this point content is more important than sound quality. Not only that, as Sirius upgrades their hardware with better and better chipsets with better compression, it will get better.
Anyone have satellite TV, talk about digital artifacts...
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayg27
Not only that, as Sirius upgrades their hardware with better and better chipsets with better compression, it will get better.
Anyone have satellite TV, talk about digital artifacts...
I think it will get worse. Sirius cannot change the codec, even if a more effective one is invented, because none of the existing receivers will be able to support it. They will not increase the bitrates - just the opposite - they'll be adding more channels, effectively pushing existing quality down. The 20% increase in bandwith planned for 2006 will require new receivers and probably will be eaten entirely by the stupid idea of video.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:37 PM   #28
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I am always surprised when the issue of sound quality comes up, most people here turn into Sirius Apologists and decry that Sirius sounds better than Fm.

It doesn't.

Let me state my affiliation. I only have Sirius for Stern. I got it last November when the announcement was made (I thought he would be kicked off/bought out by now) So I've had a year to audition Sirius.

I love the content. I have a PnP hooked up to my nice home stereo system, not some Toyota radio with a Fm modulator.

It still doesn't sound as good as something you are paying for should sound. Why would anyone stream this on their computer when most streams on ShoutCast beat the snot out of Sirius when it comes to sound quality?

It just makes me sad that Sirius, and satellite radio in general COULD be so kick ass. But they bit off more than they could chew, and this is what we are stuck with. We should have half the channels and twice the bandwidth, and Sirius would rock oh so cleverly.

But alas it doesn't.

Now I fear Stern will sound like a tin can. Wave the musical guests bye bye. I wonder if Howard even knows what his show will sound like on Sirius.

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Old 08-29-2005, 09:50 PM   #29
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*yawn* Doesn't this topic get tired? Bottom line, if it doesn't sound good, don't buy it. There are plenty of folks who are perfectly happy with the sound, don't notice the imperfections, or those who quite frankly don't care. You want to have Sirius do something about it? Cancel your sub. Send em a message.

But no, you won't, because you are here for the content, and like the variety that Sirius provides, and it's better than the crap that plays on your local FM dial. Quite the predicament ain't it?

Sorry folks, just had to vent.. this topic and the one of "Sirius doesn't work in my concrete bunker of a basement and they need to fix it" just get old after a while.
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Old 08-29-2005, 11:24 PM   #30
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My sound quality is great-it is the signal i wish they would work on more.drops out alot more than xm did.but i still think sirius is much better than xm.
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