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Old 08-31-2005, 05:44 PM   #61
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Arthur, I'm going to say this again. My Sirius setup sounds much better than FM. It does not sound like CD but it is very close. I have friends that have similar results by having a direct connection. I think if Sirius did increase their sound quality it still wouldn't translate via the FM modulators. My stereo is set-up to optimize auxiliary inputs and a Sirius tuner. Don't think that your setup is typical. I'd recommend going to a car stereo specialist that sells Sirius and have a listen to one of their setups.
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:17 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Satellite radio was never intended for people who expect the sound quality of a live performance of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.
I guess you are right, but very few of us had expected something crappier than FM. Thanks to the kind of "helpful" opinions coming from fans like you.
Anyway, I'll stop crying now , you are right about getting on with the rest of my life. Sorry if I have disturbed your peace of mind.
I'm not disturbed, Arthur. But you clearly appear to be. Your expectations were way too high.

Sirius has never claimed to be geared toward audiophiles who want near perfect sound. You appear to have an axe to grind with Sirius, because you were apparently expecting CD quality sound.

Judging by the hard fact that only about 1.5% of subscribers discontinue the service, the vast majority are satisfied with the sound quality.

And there are MANY subscribers who will disagree with your opinion that FM sounds better than Sirius.

I believe you mentioned that you are from Canada. Did you ever stop to think that the paths of Sirius's geosynchronous satellites were selected so as to provide optimal reception in the USA, which is where virtually all their current customers are located?

Did you ever stop to think that now that Sirius will be expanding into Canada, they may in the near future launch a new geostationary satellite, which will significantly improve reception for Canadians? This will also improve the reception for some Americans, who now have occasional brief dropouts caused by the current geosynchronous satellites.
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:30 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by HarleyJoel
Arthur, I'm going to say this again. My Sirius setup sounds much better than FM. It does not sound like CD but it is very close. I have friends that have similar results by having a direct connection.
Agreed.

A direct connection makes a noticeable difference.

I don't believe Sirius ever made the claim that their sound quality was equal to CD's, so a comparison between the two is irrelevant.

Satellite radio (Sirius AND XM) was intended to compete with FM radio, and thus far satellite has proven to be a very worthy opponent. Especially judging by the approximate 6.5 million customers who have signed up in a few short years, and the projections from neutral outside sources that predict millions more coming on board within a few more years.
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:53 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Did you ever stop to think that now that Sirius will be expanding into Canada, they may in the near future launch a new geostationary satellite, which will significantly improve reception for Canadians? This will also improve the reception for some Americans, who now have occasional brief dropouts caused by the current geosynchronous satellites.
I thought I was done in this thread, because the discussion became too "emotional", but this is just another wrong statement which needs to be corrected.
Reception in the digital domain (Sirius is a 100% digital service) has no impact on sound quality. It is nothing like the reception of analog signal, where you get static and distortion when reception is bad. With digital signal you either have reception or not. If the signal varies, it does not result in lower sound quality, but in brief dropouts or permanent silence. There's nothing like that here, signal is perfect. As a matter of fact, the reception from the Sirius satellites in Canada, especially the central part, is better than most of the US territory, because of the specific satellite orbit (there's better visibility to the satellites because they are realtively higher on the horizon, straight overhead in Winnipeg, for example). The geostationary satellite that Sirius plans to launch in the future is supposed to improve reception for indoor non-mobile receivers, nothing to do with Canada.
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:45 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Arthur Dent
I thought I was done in this thread, because the discussion became too "emotional", but this is just another wrong statement which needs to be corrected. Reception in the digital domain (Sirius is a 100% digital service) has no impact on sound quality. It is nothing like the reception of analog signal, where you get static and distortion when reception is bad. With digital signal you either have reception or not. If the signal varies, it does not result in lower sound quality, but in brief dropouts or permanent silence. There's nothing like that here, signal is perfect. As a matter of fact, the reception from the Sirius satellites in Canada, especially the central part, is better than most of the US territory, because of the specific satellite orbit (there's better visibility to the satellites because they are realtively higher on the horizon, straight overhead in Winnipeg, for example). The geostationary satellite that Sirius plans to launch in the future is supposed to improve reception for indoor non-mobile receivers, nothing to do with Canada.
You're obviously the one who is getting too emotional about this, and it's apparent you have an axe to grind with Sirius.

You may be correct in some of your technical assessments.

However, why are there MANY people on this board, including myself--who adamantly insist their sound quality is BETTER than FM radio?

I've been on a number of online discussion forums, and have personally spoken to a number of people in my area who have Sirius. So I know of HUNDREDS of people who insist without question that their sound quality is SUPERIOR to FM.

You are in a very small minority that insists otherwise. Why should I take the word of a few chronic gripers over the testimony of HUNDREDS of people who have the very same service?

You insist that sound quality won't vary on an all digital system, but HUNDREDS also firmly disagree with you on that, based on their own personal experience.

And did you ever think that the brand and type of receiver one owns, has something to do with sound quality? All electronic equipment is NOT of identical quality.

It is apparent that either one side is either lying or mistaken. I personally will have to take the word of the HUNDREDS over the extreme minority.

It is obvious you are quite unhappy with Sirius, and judging by your ever increasing complaints, you will NEVER be happy with it. So I recommend that you call their toll free number and cancel ASAP.
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Old 08-31-2005, 09:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
It is obvious you are quite unhappy with Sirius, and judging by your ever increasing complaints, you will NEVER be happy with it. So I recommend that you call their toll free number and cancel ASAP.
I appreciate the concern, just wish you kept your personal advices to me to a number equal or less than the number of personal advices I'm giving to you.
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Old 08-31-2005, 09:44 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Arthur Dent
I appreciate the concern, just wish you kept your personal advices to me to a number equal or less than the number of personal advices I'm giving to you.
We don't always get what we wish for, Artie.

But you can fulfill your wish to rid yourself of Sirius's alleged poor sound quality, by calling that number and cancelling.

It'll be a load off your mind and you'll be a happier man for it. You know it's the right thing. Just do it.
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Old 09-01-2005, 01:35 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Did you ever stop to think that now that Sirius will be expanding into Canada, they may in the near future launch a new geostationary satellite, which will significantly improve reception for Canadians? This will also improve the reception for some Americans, who now have occasional brief dropouts caused by the current geosynchronous satellites.
I thought I was done in this thread, because the discussion became too "emotional", but this is just another wrong statement which needs to be corrected.
Reception in the digital domain (Sirius is a 100% digital service) has no impact on sound quality. It is nothing like the reception of analog signal, where you get static and distortion when reception is bad. With digital signal you either have reception or not. If the signal varies, it does not result in lower sound quality, but in brief dropouts or permanent silence. There's nothing like that here, signal is perfect. As a matter of fact, the reception from the Sirius satellites in Canada, especially the central part, is better than most of the US territory, because of the specific satellite orbit (there's better visibility to the satellites because they are realtively higher on the horizon, straight overhead in Winnipeg, for example). The geostationary satellite that Sirius plans to launch in the future is supposed to improve reception for indoor non-mobile receivers, nothing to do with Canada.
*applause to Arthur*, as you know, I agree with you 110% on all these issues. I'm amazed that the average person's hearing is so bad that they don't find Sirius's SQ unacceptable. (I was glad to see that Sirius actually took my advice the other day and actaully increased the sound quality of WRN somewhat to at least a passable AM quality). There is unfortunatly very very little chance that any form of Digital Radio will EVER have good sound quality because as you noted, most people seem to think it actually sounds good the way it is. Knowing this, most forms of digital radio will probably continue to over-compress their signals knowing full well that most people have such terrible hearing that they won't notice. It puts people like you and I in a very bad position where we can be guaranteed that we'll never hear good quality radio in the digital domain.

I'm one of those people in "Winnipeg" that Arthur noted and I can attest the "reception" is perfect, the satellite is almost a perfect 90 degrees over my head, that is NOT the issue. Sure I get FULL SIGNAL strength from the signal strength indicator but that has no bearing on the Sound Quality I get. The stronger signal means that it is VERY unlikely that you ever get a dropout in Winnipeg.

Arthur: See this is why I'm actually in favor of the Canadian Government actually overturning the satellite radio decision in Canada. I'd be curious to actually check out that "Chum' service that they want to offer using standard DAB radios (which are generally encoded at a much higher bitrate). Unfortunatly as you probably know, Chum won't launch unless Sirius and XM remain unlicenced in Canada.
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Old 09-01-2005, 01:43 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by mcpish
*applause to Arthur*, as you know, I agree with you 110% on all these issues. I'm amazed that the average person's hearing is so bad that they don't find Sirius's SQ unacceptable. (I was glad to see that Sirius actually took my advice the other day and actaully increased the sound quality of WRN somewhat to at least a passable AM quality). There is unfortunatly very very little chance that any form of Digital Radio will EVER have good sound quality because as you noted, most people seem to think it actually sounds good the way it is. Knowing this, most forms of digital radio will probably continue to over-compress their signals knowing full well that most people have such terrible hearing that they won't notice. It puts people like you and I in a very bad position where we can be guaranteed that we'll never hear good quality radio in the digital domain.
Life's a bitch, then you die.

If you're a current Sirius subscriber, call customer service ASAP and cancel.

It makes no sense for a world-reknown audiophile like yourself to have to put up with poor sound quality.
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Old 09-01-2005, 01:45 AM   #70
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maybe it's a Canadian thing and that's why Arthur and I have such good hearing ;-)
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Old 09-01-2005, 01:58 AM   #71
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maybe it's a Canadian thing and that's why Arthur and I have such good hearing
You previously stated that you don't believe the situation will ever get better.

Is it a Canadian thing to whine incessantly about a problem you don't believe will ever get better, and have no control over?

I suggest you make that cancellation call ASAP. You're doing nothing but spitting in the wind here.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:04 AM   #72
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maybe it's a Canadian thing and that's why Arthur and I have such good hearing
You previously stated that you don't believe the situation will ever get better.

Is it a Canadian thing to whine incessantly about a problem you don't believe will ever get better, and have no control over?

I suggest you make that cancellation call ASAP. You're doing nothing but spitting in the wind here.
Actually that probably is a Canadian thing ;-)
Honestly though I'm not trying to be hostile to you, I know you're sick of hearing this. I think the point though that Arthur and I are concerned with is that the way the market is, and the way that consumer behavior is, guarantees that there never will be high quality digital radio services.

You can say it's a simple matter of cancelling but I think that to a certain extent, that is an "american way" of thinking. I want high quality services from firms both private and public. My only recourse to obtain a high quality product shouldn't be simply to "cancel", but to work to actually improve the situation. That's the reason why we have "public" health care service in this country, we recognize in Canada that having an attitute like "well gee that doctor screwed up and accidently amputated the wrong arm? cancel and go to another hospital" is not a legitimate responce. No, we demand a mimumum level of quality to all of our services. That's the reason why in Canada commercial TV stations are not ALLOWED BY LAW to have more than 12 min/hour of commercials. This is another example where saying "you are not happy don't watch" is not a valid solution if you actually want something to improve. You need to enforce certain minimum standards for things to actually improve not just say "cancel", that improves nothing, it leads to a uniform level of mediocrity.

Why do you think your AM/FM radio is so terrible in the USA? It's because of that attitute, "well you don't like it, don't listen". A more constructive approach would be to lobby to enforce some minimum standards of broadcasting in your country so that AM/FM doesn't tottally suck. This is why Broadcasting in countries like the UK is regarded as being so high-quality. They take the complete opposite attitute to the extreme to ensure that the quality if broadcasting is not simply "good enough". No wonder SIrius/XM are starting to take the same path towards the lowest common denominator.

On a seperate note, to those that say that their AM/FM reception has tons of static and that Sirius sounds better. Either AM/FM transmitters output a really weak and lousy signal in the USA or AM/FM transmitters in Canada are extremely high quality. In any average city that I've ever been to, AM/FM signals are generally strong and without background noise.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:45 AM   #73
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Actually that probably is a Canadian thing ;-)
Honestly though I'm not trying to be hostile to you, I know you're sick of hearing this. I think the point though that Arthur and I are concerned with is that the way the market is, and the way that consumer behavior is, guarantees that there never will be high quality digital radio services.

You can say it's a simple matter of cancelling but I think that to a certain extent, that is an "american way" of thinking. I want high quality services from firms both private and public. My only recourse to obtain a high quality product shouldn't be simply to "cancel", but to work to actually improve the situation. That's the reason why we have "public" health care service in this country, we recognize in Canada that having an attitute like "well gee that doctor screwed up and accidently amputated the wrong arm? cancel and go to another hospital" is not a legitimate responce. No, we demand a mimumum level of quality to all of our services. That's the reason why in Canada commercial TV stations are not ALLOWED BY LAW to have more than 12 min/hour of commercials. This is another example where saying "you are not happy don't watch" is not a valid solution if you actually want something to improve. You need to enforce certain minimum standards for things to actually improve not just say "cancel", that improves nothing, it leads to a uniform level of mediocrity.

Why do you think your AM/FM radio is so terrible in the USA? It's because of that attitute, "well you don't like it, don't listen". A more constructive approach would be to lobby to enforce some minimum standards of broadcasting in your country so that AM/FM doesn't tottally suck. This is why Broadcasting in countries like the UK is regarded as being so high-quality. They take the complete opposite attitute to the extreme to ensure that the quality if broadcasting is not simply "good enough". No wonder SIrius/XM are starting to take the same path towards the lowest common denominator.

On a seperate note, to those that say that their AM/FM reception has tons of static and that Sirius sounds better. Either AM/FM transmitters output a really weak and lousy signal in the USA or AM/FM transmitters in Canada are extremely high quality. In any average city that I've ever been to, AM/FM signals are generally strong and without background noise.
I'm not trying to be hostile either, but your post is primarily unsubstantiated BS.

I've lived in several states that border on Canada, and hospitals and clinics in those states are often flooded with Canadians crossing over the border to obtain American health care.

The Canadian government health care system is regarded as a joke in the industrialized world, except by socialists wearing rose-colored glasses, who advocate government health care for political reasons.

Just because you claim your AM/FM radio is better, doesn't make it so. I'll bet it sucks just like American radio. The main problem we have with our AM/FM radio is too many commercials. I'll bet your stations have those too.

And if you think your AM/FM radio is so bloody great, what the hell are you PAYING Sirius for, which you think stinks?! Is a lack of common sense a Canadian thing also?

And since you socialist Canadians think big government regulation is the answer to everything, why do you bother those of us at SBS with your constant prattle?

I know of no government officials who post here. Instead of posting here, where virtually nobody cares what you have to say, nor have the power to help you obtain your goals even if they did--your time would be better spent lobbying the U.S. and Canadian governments.

In fact, why don't you convince the Canadian government to ban Sirius in Canada, and confiscate ALL sat radio equipment from private citizens like yourself and Arthur? Then we could live in peace at SBS, and talk about the radio service virtually all of us enjoy, even if it doesn't meet the audio standards of some of our high and mighty neighbors to the north.

You are WASTING your time here. You can post here until you're blue in the face and fingers, and it won't make sat radio any better or worse--EVER.

I'm not suggesting you don't have the right to post here. As long as the owner(s) of this site say you can stay, then you can stay.

But you're living in a fool's paradise if you think you can improve sat radio sound quality by complaining ad nauseum at this website.
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Old 09-01-2005, 02:53 AM   #74
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how hostile. I don't want you to have a heart attack, you might do the american thing and threaten to sue me. ;-)

I'm not so much complaining as in "forcefully suggesting". Kind of like how the US Army wasn't illegally invading another country they were "liberators" ;-)

I dunno though I think a bigger contender for joke of the industrialized world are Kansas schoolboards including "creationism" as a scientific principle, but I digress.
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Old 09-01-2005, 03:02 AM   #75
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how hostile. I don't want you to have a heart attack, you might do the american thing and threaten to sue me. ;-)
Your inability to respond to my points with anything but an appeal to ridicule is noted.

.
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