Digital Radio Central - Sponsored by TSS Radio
  DRC Home Page DRC Forums Contact Us  
 
SIRIUS Backstage Forum
 
 
 
  Sirius Satellite Radio XM Satellite Radio iTunes/iPod Slacker Pandora  
 
 
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > > >
Visit Digital Radio Central

Notices

SIRIUS Jazz & Blues, Standards, Classical, Latin & Int'l Diverse musical styles including sophisticated Jazz, authentic Blues, Classical music, rhythmic Latin, Mexico's biggest hits, Caribbean Dance, and music from all corners of the global village.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
 
Old 10-11-2005, 09:53 PM   #46
Renaissance Man
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 1,190
Renaissance Man is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithDouglas
Sure, I realize that. But I think it should be obvious that there should be at least ONE channel dedicated to jazz music's first few decades. The jazz of the 1920s to 1940s shouldn't be heard only when it is folded in with music of another format.
An exclusive early Jazz channel AIN'T gonna happen until Sirius gets more bandwidth, period.

You can bet the farm on that, so there's no use complaining.
Renaissance Man is offline  
 
 
Old 10-11-2005, 11:00 PM   #47
prymel
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 367
prymel is on a distinguished road
Default

Well, on the plus side, an early jazz station wouldn't require as much bandwidth for SQ purposes as a more modern station. But you're right, it ain't happening anytime soon.
prymel is offline  
 
 
Old 10-12-2005, 02:47 AM   #48
608zz
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Mar 18, 2005
Location: DC metro area. Sirius on JVC SR2000, XM on JXR9.
Posts: 348
608zz is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithDouglas
What Sirius is missing with the loss of Swing Street is the classic jazz of the 1920s through 1940s.
Not true. You posted a list of performers that you incorrectly claimed were no longer available on Sirius.

I posted the following list of songs, which features most of the performers you listed, from the era you mentioned. ALL of these songs were played in just a two day period, AFTER Swing Street had been assimilated into Standards.

If you're going to criticize, please make sure your criticisms are valid. All of the songs below were played on September 30th and/or Oct. 1:

Duke Ellington--Satin Doll

Count Basie--April in Paris; Corner Pocket; Shiny Stockings

Benny Goodman--Don't Be That Way; Jersey Bounce; Stompin' at the Savoy

Glenn Miller--A String of Pearls; American Patrol; Chattanooga Choo-Choo; In the Mood; Pennsylvania 6-5000; Tuxedo Junction

Ella Fitzgerald--All Of Me; Anything Goes; Blues In The Night; Cheek To Cheek; Goody Goody; Heat Wave; Isn't It Romantic?; Isn't This A Lovely Day?; Mack The Knife; Over The Rainbow; Tea For Two; The Way You Look Tonight; Too Marvelous For Words

Artie Shaw--Begin the Beguine; Stardust

Tommy Dorsey--Marie; Well Git It; Yes Indeed!

Harry James--Ciribiribin; I Don't Want To Walk Without You; I Had The Craziest Dream; I'm Beginning To See The Light; It's Been A Long, Long Time; Music Makers; Two O'clock Jump; You Made Me Love You
As fans of early Jazz, we (myself, and I’ll venture to guess Keith too) don’t want to standby listening to Barbara Streistand, Linda Rhonstadt, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darren, Barry Manilow, Minnie Driver, Bruce Willis, or even classic crooners while we wait for a swing or early-jazz song. The premise of an on-demand music genre is lost when it’s a completely different kind of music playing 90% of the time. A listener of satellite radio should know that. Why anyway do you keep trying to defend Sirius’s decision to consolidate SwingStreet into StandardTime? What do you get out of trying so hard to change people’s opinions about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithDouglas
(Hint: If Armsong is only heard singing and doesn't play his trumpet . . . then it probably isn't one of his jazz recordings.)
Armstrong played the cornet, not the trumpet.

Not to mention that "Jeepers Creepers" and "I've Got the World on a String" were both recorded in the 1930's, and were both on the list of Armstrong songs I provided.
He played the cornet first, but switched to trumpet. The name of the instrument is besides the point though. Most of the Armstrong songs you cited were recorded in the late 60s and were mostly standard styles (Armstrong crooning, backed by classical music), which is not the type of music we're talking about. Why do you insist on extending an irrelivant point? There is no longer on-demand swing/early-Jazz on Sirius and the title of this topic reflects the loss of it. If you don’t want to read about it, you'd probably be better off not doing so.
__________________
Six months after I got Sirius, they deleted most of their best music channels and replaced them with the worst (Sept 29, '05). Hense I got XM on Oct 21st and doubt I'll be renewing my Sirius. I can't support a service that mimics commercial-FM.
608zz is offline  
 
 
Old 10-12-2005, 03:45 AM   #49
Renaissance Man
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 1,190
Renaissance Man is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 608zz
Most of the Armstrong songs you cited were recorded in the late 60s and were mostly standard styles (Armstrong crooning, backed by classical music), which is not the type of music we're talking about.
As is so often the case, you're wrong. "What a Wonderful World" was the only one recorded in the late sixties. And all of them except "Wonderful World" are properly classified as jazz.

Jeepers Creepers--1939
I've Got the World on a String--1933
Mack the Knife--1955
Blueberry Hill--1949
Cabaret--1965
Let's Fall in Love--1957
A Kiss to Build a Dream On--1951
What a Wonderful World--1967
Renaissance Man is offline  
 
 
Old 10-12-2005, 07:51 AM   #50
608zz
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Mar 18, 2005
Location: DC metro area. Sirius on JVC SR2000, XM on JXR9.
Posts: 348
608zz is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by 608zz
Most of the Armstrong songs you cited were recorded in the late 60s and were mostly standard styles (Armstrong crooning, backed by classical music), which is not the type of music we're talking about.
As is so often the case, you're wrong. "What a Wonderful World" was the only one recorded in the late sixties. And all of them except "Wonderful World" are properly classified as jazz.

Jeepers Creepers--1939
I've Got the World on a String--1933
Mack the Knife--1955
Blueberry Hill--1949
Cabaret--1965
Let's Fall in Love--1957
A Kiss to Build a Dream On--1951
What a Wonderful World--1967
“So often wrong”, huh? You are implying that because I got the years wrong on the song recordings that I’m wrong about what genre they belong in? Those post-1949 songs are part of StandardTime’s playlist because that’s the one they’ve been on all along. They don’t belong in swing/early-jazz programming.

You’re not helping anyone with these defensive statements. Anyone who’s a fan of swing/early-jazz would know that its existance on StandardTime is very weak after giving the channel a mere 10-song trial.

Why do you feel the need to constantly defend Sirius on everything anyway? From the first message I’ve seen posted by you, that’s all I see you doing. Why spend so much time defending a company? What is the incentive?
__________________
Six months after I got Sirius, they deleted most of their best music channels and replaced them with the worst (Sept 29, '05). Hense I got XM on Oct 21st and doubt I'll be renewing my Sirius. I can't support a service that mimics commercial-FM.
608zz is offline  
 
 
Old 10-12-2005, 09:05 AM   #51
KeithDouglas
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2004
Location: Washington DC area
Posts: 599
KeithDouglas is on a distinguished road
Default Re: I miss Swing Street!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Not true. You posted a list of performers that you incorrectly claimed were no longer available on Sirius.
I think you're missing the point, completely.

First, this part of my original post is very important: (I realize that some of these artists made recordings in the 1950s and later and these may be heard on Standard Time, but I am talking about the music these artists recorded the 1940s and earlier.)

Secondly, even though some of this music is now heard on Standard Time and despite the fact that I enjoy listening to Standard Time and always have, I still feel there's something huge missing from the Sirius lineup if there's not at least one channel dedicated entirely to the classic jazz of the 1940s and earlier. You'll just have to believe me when I say that's the way I feel and you can't talk me out of it.

I'm glad to have the classic jazz that's currently heard on Standard Time, but I don't always want to hear a half dozen songs by Michael Bublé, Peggy Lee, Rod Stewart, and Nat King Cole in order to hear one or two swinging jazz tunes. I want a channel that plays swinging jazz all the time.

Having a way to hear jazz music, like what used to be played on Swing Street and is (thankfully, at least for the time being) still being played on Pure Jazz is one of the main reasons I bought a satellite radio. Now almost 50% of that is gone. It's sad.
__________________
KeithDouglas is offline  
 
 
Old 10-13-2005, 02:17 AM   #52
Renaissance Man
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 1,190
Renaissance Man is on a distinguished road
Default

You guys think Sirius is here to cater to your every musical whim. They're not. You can't please all the people all the time. A company that tries to please everybody will end up pleasing almost nobody.

You are in a tiny minority of Sirius subscribers who think it's Sirius's duty to provide you with channels tailored exclusively to your tastes.

I wish Sirius could satisfy every whiner on earth, but they just can't. They're doing the best they can with the very limited bandwidth the FCC has allotted them. They've got eight Canadian channels coming on board shortly, which is why they've had to assimilate certain channels into others. It was a business decision that had to be made.

You both need to go buy a 60 gig MP3 player and subscribe to Yahoo Music. That way you can be your own program director, and be able to play whatever you want when you want it.
Renaissance Man is offline  
 
 
Old 10-13-2005, 09:32 AM   #53
KeithDouglas
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2004
Location: Washington DC area
Posts: 599
KeithDouglas is on a distinguished road
Default Rock and pop, rock and pop, rock and pop . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
You guys think Sirius is here to cater to your every musical whim.
Nope, I believed Sirius when they said they offered diversity and variety of music. Then, that meant Swing Street and Pure Jazz and Standard Time. Now one of those three is gone. It's hard for me to believe they are serious about musical variety when they have about two dozen rock and pop channels and only a couple jazz channels.

It seems to be a trend.

Another recent disappointment has been taking Vacation off the air. Most of the Vacation playlist was music that couldn't be heard anywhere else on Sirius. It was replaced by Margaritaville. Most of the Margaritaville playlist is the same as what's played on half a dozen other pop and rock channels.

I'll pay for real musical choice and diversity. I'm not so interested in paying to have dozens of channels playing almost exactly the same thing.
__________________
KeithDouglas is offline  
 
 
Old 10-13-2005, 04:05 PM   #54
kc1ih
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Mar 19, 2004
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 464
kc1ih is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to kc1ih
Default

I think the reference to pre-40's music refers to a style rather than when it was actually recorded. There are bands today recording music written in the 20's, they would be most welcome on such a channel. And yes, they would have the same bandwidth requirement s as other music channels.
__________________
Larry
Lake Wobegone, NH
kc1ih is offline  
 
 
Old 10-15-2005, 08:32 AM   #55
deerfielddave
Just Tuned In
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 7
deerfielddave is on a distinguished road
Default Swing street loss felt here

The good points have been taken (thanks KeithDouglas for your accurate ripostes), to summarize;

1. For some of us, we lost about 25-50% of the value of the product, when Swing Street was lost.
2. Mixing swing street with standards is adding insult to injury for those have already suffered through the wretched revival of standards by modern artists.
3. We are a small minority of music lovers, generally respectful enough not to criticize other genres, but clearly left with the feeling Sirius doesn't care about true musical diversity. But hey, anyone who listened to the depth of programing on First Wave already knew that.

WE ARE NOT FOGYS, JUST TOO OLD FOR 5 ELECTRONIC/DANCE CHANNELS.

BRING BACK SWING STREET.
deerfielddave is offline  
 
 
Old 10-15-2005, 03:32 PM   #56
608zz
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Mar 18, 2005
Location: DC metro area. Sirius on JVC SR2000, XM on JXR9.
Posts: 348
608zz is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Swing street loss felt here

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerfielddave
The good points have been taken (thanks KeithDouglas for your accurate ripostes), to summarize;

1. For some of us, we lost about 25-50% of the value of the product, when Swing Street was lost.
For me, it's more than just the loss of the channel. It's also what they replaced it with. TheCoffeeHouse and Supershuffle take their playlists purely from existing channels, just like what Keith describes about Margaritaville replacing Vacation. It looks to me as if Sirius is trying to use all of its channels to attract a specific type of listener, rather than trying to support multiple genres of music for everyone to enjoy.

Quote:
2. Mixing swing street with standards is adding insult to injury for those have already suffered through the wretched revival of standards by modern artists.
Never has a statement been truer than that.

Quote:
3. We are a small minority of music lovers, generally respectful enough not to criticize other genres, but clearly left with the feeling Sirius doesn't care about true musical diversity. But hey, anyone who listened to the depth of programing on First Wave already knew that.
The writing is on the wall, so I guess it's best to just bite the bullet (the pain: having to buy all new hardware and retire stuff that's functionally still perfectly good). XM does offer the channels and programming so, currently at least, we can get Swing/early-Jazz plus a better variety of music overall than what Sirius is willing to give us (I've been comparing their Folk, World, and other genres too). Unfortunately that means settling for hardware that is poorly designed and (so far) unrefined. That seems better to me than superb hardware that receives blah content though. Their previous generation of PnPs can be bought for almost nothing if we consider the rebates.

What unique channels does XM offer me?
• The40s - Swing/early-Jazz.
• TheGroove - Old school R&B/Funk.
• TheVillage - Folk.
• Luna - Latin Jazz.
• Audio Visions - What Spa pretends to be.
• World Zone - Traditional/ethnic folk music.
• Fine Tuning - An eclectic mix of adult music.
• XMU - What Left of Center pretends to be.
• Ngoma - African music.
• Better programming overall - Done by afficienados of each genre.

What unique channels does Sirius offer me?
• Jam_ON.
• Chill.
• NPR/PRI (unique for satellite radio, but I already get it on FM).
• We all know how the programming we currently get is.
__________________
Six months after I got Sirius, they deleted most of their best music channels and replaced them with the worst (Sept 29, '05). Hense I got XM on Oct 21st and doubt I'll be renewing my Sirius. I can't support a service that mimics commercial-FM.
608zz is offline  
 
 
Old 10-15-2005, 10:49 PM   #57
linedrivehit
Mixologist
 
linedrivehit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 27, 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 472
linedrivehit is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Swing street loss felt here

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerfielddave
The good points have been taken (thanks KeithDouglas for your accurate ripostes), to summarize;

1. For some of us, we lost about 25-50% of the value of the product, when Swing Street was lost.
2. Mixing swing street with standards is adding insult to injury for those have already suffered through the wretched revival of standards by modern artists.
3. We are a small minority of music lovers, generally respectful enough not to criticize other genres, but clearly left with the feeling Sirius doesn't care about true musical diversity. But hey, anyone who listened to the depth of programing on First Wave already knew that.
Very good summary. "Wretched" is a good word to describe these songs the modern artists are doing trying to jump on the standards bandwagon.
__________________
linedrivehit is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2005, 09:58 PM   #58
Renaissance Man
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 1,190
Renaissance Man is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Rock and pop, rock and pop, rock and pop . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithDouglas
It's hard for me to believe they are serious about musical variety when they have about two dozen rock and pop channels and only a couple jazz channels.
Rock and Pop are enormous markets, easily dwarfing the sales of Jazz records and CD's over the years. Not to mention music videos, where the Jazz sales are almost nonexistent in comparison.

Jazz is a niche market with unimpressive sales figures. I know, because I have an extensive collection of Jazz records, and have listened to the genre since the 1960's.

It's hard for me to believe that you have much knowledge of Rock and Pop music, or you would know that the sub-genres of Rock alone are significantly different. Rock and Pop have a far greater variety of sub-genres, and thus deserve more channels.

Many classic rockers who love Led Zeppelin etc., dislike listening to Punk Rock and Death Metal, just as much as you dislike listening to a mix of standards and Swing.

You think that a very narrow musical niche of 20's-40's Swing deserves its own channel, but that significantly different subgenres of Rock don't.

So it all comes down to you thinking your personal opinions and preferences are superior to those of Rock fans.

Unfortunately for you, in the free market, the vast majority rules. Because that's where the subscribers are.

For very narrow-minded listeners such as yourself, I strongly suggest you get a 60 gig MP3 player and subscribe to Yahoo Music. You will be able to tailor your listening to your own needs, rather than wasting time bellyaching about inevitable channel changes at Sirius.
Renaissance Man is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2005, 10:23 PM   #59
Renaissance Man
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 1,190
Renaissance Man is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Swing street loss felt here

Quote:
Originally Posted by linedrivehit
Very good summary. "Wretched" is a good word to describe these songs the modern artists are doing trying to jump on the standards bandwagon.
A lot of the old singers, musicians, critics and fans are actually quite thankful for "new kids" like Michael Buble--because they realize he has revived interest in the genre, and has brought it to the attention of younger generations.

Michael Buble very recently had the number one song on Billboard's "Adult Contemporary" chart--ahead of performers like Mariah Carey, Kelly Clarkson, the Eagles, Backstreet Boys, Goo Goo Dolls, Carrie Underwood etc.
Renaissance Man is offline  
 
 
Old 10-19-2005, 08:14 AM   #60
KeithDouglas
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2004
Location: Washington DC area
Posts: 599
KeithDouglas is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Rock and pop, rock and pop, rock and pop . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
You think that a very narrow musical niche of 20's-40's Swing deserves its own channel, but that significantly different subgenres of Rock don't.
I'm a huge rock and pop fan too. I've got nearly every Led Zeppelin album. And a great many of the Rolling Stones albums. I used to have KISS posters on my wall (well, I was in junior high). I've been to dozens of rock and pop concerts big and small (U2, Prince, Grateful Dead, Joe "King" Carrasco, etc.). I like Beck and the White Stripes . . .

. . . but I think it's a mistake to allocate channels strictly on the basis of record sales and popularity. For one thing, Sirius might get more subscribers by offering varieties of music that appeal to a wider variety of demographics (young people and old people, white and black, etc.) than it might get by programming to every possible niche of pop and rock — despite the fact that rock and pop sells the most CDs. Secondly, when it comes to the arts I think some consideration should be given to artistic merit and the importance of a musical genre in historical and aesthetic terms.

So, I'd be pretty happy to give up one of the two dozen pop and rock channels to get one channel of classic jazz. Definitely.
__________________
KeithDouglas is offline  
 
 
 

Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > > >


Digitalradiocentral.com




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.39 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All Content Copyright SIRIUS Backstage. All Rights Reserved. SIRIUS and registered trademarks are the property of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc. The opinions posted on SIRIUS Backstage website and forums are those of the individual posters and/or this website and are not necessarily the opinions or positions of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc.