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Old 08-17-2005, 09:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoker
Or, you could have just linked to the whoe article in the first place instead of pasting the whole thing here.
A lot of posters on internet forums ignore most of the links.

This way, I know more people will see it and read it.

Does it really matter either way?
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:24 AM   #32
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hi rm,

thanks for the articles. but i still think i stand by my original comments - in that we would have had the other musicians with or without the beatles.

in my mind, there are only 2 artists whose contributions were key in the overall influence of rock and roll.

1) elvis - without that contribution, there may never have been a rock and roll. before elvis, the early 50s was basically easy listening singing from doris day, patti page, etc. (connie francis and frankie valli did not come until after elvis). this change was monumental, and caused all sorts of havoc with the morality of the day. not that the havoc was a good thing - just demonstrating the effect that it had.

2) dylan - for the message that he brought into music. while i believe that elvis' contribution was key, i do believe that there was more than 1 good looking guy who could sing that could have done the job that elvis did, had he had the chance. that is not true with dylan. his talent was extremely unique, and may not ever be duplicated.

now that does not mean that other artists did not add some contributions. for example, overdubbing is usually attributed to les paul and mary ford, and is now commonly done, making a singer's voice sound much richer. and i am perfectly willing to stipulate that the beatles added some musical touches of their own, as well. but in terms of major direction, i only credit elvis and dylan in rock and roll.

now if we talk about country, that would be a whole different story, as i think one may have to include many more artists - but then country music has been around a lot longer, going thru various phases. today's country, for example, is hardly distinguishable from rock and roll, for me. it certainly does not remind me of country music - i.e. with banjos, fiddles and mandolins, etc.

and i know next to nothing about those that contributed to jazz and r&b, since i dislike both formats.
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:39 AM   #33
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"It's been said that everyone that watched the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show immediately started a band. Since the 1960s when the band were still recording and performing to this very day, the Beatles have inspired and influenced musicians from one end of the musical spectrum to the other, including Everclear, The Brodsky Quartet, MxPx, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Genesis, King's X, Jerry Garcia, Elvis Costello, Brian Wilson, Neil Diamond, Rush, Jimi Hendrix, Skid Row, Buddy Miller, Alice Cooper, Jeff Lynne and ELO, Rich Mullins, Kiss, Nirvana, Los Lobos, Queensryche, Guns 'n Roses, Moxy Fruvous, and Run DMC."

http://www.wacklepedia.com/t/th/the_...influence.html
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:59 AM   #34
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"Throughout their relatively short time recording and performing together, the Beatles set a number of world records — most of which have yet to be broken. The following is a partial list.

* The Beatles are the best-selling musical group of all time, estimated by EMI to be over one billion discs and tapes sold worldwide.
* The most multi-platinum selling albums for any artist or musical group (13 in the U.S. alone).
* The Beatles have had more Number One singles than any other artist or musical group (22 in the U.S., 23 in Australia, 23 in The Netherlands, 22 in Canada, 21 in Norway, 18 in Sweden). Ironically, the Beatles could easily have had even more Number Ones, because they were often competing with their own singles. For example, the Beatles' "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" were released as a "double A"-sided single, which caused sales and airplay to be divided between the two songs instead of being counted collectively. Even so, they reached Number Two with the singles.
* The Beatles have had more Number One albums than any other act (19 in the U.S. and 15 in the U.K.).
* The Beatles spent the highest number of weeks at Number One in the albums chart (132 in the U.S. and 174 in the U.K.).
* The most successful first week of sales for a double album (The Beatles Anthology Volume 1), which sold 855,473 copies in the U.S. from November 21 to November 28, 1995).
* In terms of charting positions, Lennon and McCartney are the most successful songwriters in history, with 32 number one singles in the U.S. for McCartney, and 26 for Lennon (23 of which were written together). Lennon was responsible for 29 Number One singles in the U.K., and McCartney was responsible for 28 (25 of which were written together).
* During the week of April 4, 1964, The Beatles held the top five positions on the Billboard singles chart. No one had ever done anything like this before, and it is doubtful that the conditions will ever exist for anyone to do it again. The songs were "Can't Buy Me Love", "Twist and Shout", "She Loves You", "I Want to Hold Your Hand", and "Please Please Me".
* The next week, April 11, 1964, the Beatles held 14 positions on the Billboard Hot 100. Before the Beatles, the highest number of concurrent singles by one artist on the Hot 100 was nine (by Elvis Presley, December 19, 1956).
* The Beatles are the only artist to have back-to-back-to-back number one singles on Billboard's Hot 100. Boyz II Men and Elvis Presley have succeeded themselves on the chart, but the Beatles are the only artist to three-peat.
* The Beatles' "Yesterday" is the most covered song in history, appearing in the Guinness Book of Records with over 3000 recorded versions.
* The Beatles had the fastest selling single of all time with "I Want To Hold Your Hand". The song sold 250,000 units within three days in the U.S., one million in 2 weeks. (Additionally, it sold 10,000 copies per hour in New York City alone for the first 20 days.)
* The Beatles have the fastest selling CD of all time with 1. It sold over 13 million copies in four weeks.
* The largest number of advance orders for a single, at 2.1 million copies in the U.S. for "Can't Buy Me Love" (it sold 940,225 copies on its first day of release in the U.S. alone).
* Sgt. Pepper`s Lonely Hearts Club Band is the best selling album of all time in the U.K. (over 4.5 million copies sold).
* With their performance at Shea Stadium in 1965, The Beatles set new world records for concert attendance (55,600+) and revenue.
* The Beatles broke television ratings records in the U.S. with their first appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show.
* On June 12, 1965, the Beatles were awarded the order of Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) by the Queen.
* On June 30, 1966, the Beatles became the first musical group to perform at the Nippon Budokan Hall in Tokyo. They performed five times in three days gathering about 10,000 audiences per performance.
* The Beatles appear five times in the top 100 best-selling singles in the UK. No other group appears more than twice."

http://brainyencyclopedia.com/encycl...e_beatles.html
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Old 08-18-2005, 11:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
"It's been said that everyone that watched the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show immediately started a band. Since the 1960s when the band were still recording and performing to this very day, the Beatles have inspired and influenced musicians from one end of the musical spectrum to the other, including Everclear, The Brodsky Quartet, MxPx, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Genesis, King's X, Jerry Garcia, Elvis Costello, Brian Wilson, Neil Diamond, Rush, Jimi Hendrix, Skid Row, Buddy Miller, Alice Cooper, Jeff Lynne and ELO, Rich Mullins, Kiss, Nirvana, Los Lobos, Queensryche, Guns 'n Roses, Moxy Fruvous, and Run DMC."

http://www.wacklepedia.com/t/th/the_...influence.html
come on - that first sentence seems a bit ridiculous.

you can pick a lot of artists who have inspired others. most of the big 50s acts are always said to have inspired the 60s acts (elvis, buddy holly, fats domino, chuck berry, everlys, etc.).

acts like zeppelin, iron butterfly, etc. would still have existed (unfortunately, lol) with or without the beatles.
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Old 08-18-2005, 11:28 PM   #36
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hi rm,

your last post is all about the beatles popularity with the people. i never argued that they were not popular. btw, dylan was putting out albums before the beatles, and the beatles were highly influenced by dylan.

although unfortunately for me, when the beatles stopped making their "i want to hold your hand music", they went to psychedelic drug music - not the message music of dylan, for sure. i wish that paul had been the leader instead of john, because it was john, and his drug use, who was responsible for all the weird antics in the group's later years.

while most of the music entertainers took drugs (way before rock and roll, by the way), lennon is the only one i can think of who openly encouraged people to experiment. for that, i will never respect him as a person.

and i think we all know that paul wrote most of the lennon-mccartney tunes.
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:39 AM   #37
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All Music Guide on the Beatles:

"So much has been said and written about the Beatles....To start with the obvious, they were the greatest and most influential act of the rock era, and introduced more innovations into popular music than any other rock band of the 20th century."

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...1:m9n8b594tsqj
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:58 AM   #38
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The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame & Museum on the Beatles:

"The impact of the Beatles upon popular music cannot be overstated; they revolutionized the music industry and touched the lives of all who heard them in deep and fundamental ways. Landing on these shores on February 7, 1964, they literally stood the world of pop culture on its head, setting the musical agenda for the remainder of the decade....Without exaggeration, they transfixed and transformed the world as we knew it"

http://www.rockhall.com/hof/inductee.asp?id=228
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
"It's been said that everyone that watched the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show immediately started a band. Since the 1960s when the band were still recording and performing to this very day, the Beatles have inspired and influenced musicians from one end of the musical spectrum to the other, including Everclear, The Brodsky Quartet, MxPx, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Genesis, King's X, Jerry Garcia, Elvis Costello, Brian Wilson, Neil Diamond, Rush, Jimi Hendrix, Skid Row, Buddy Miller, Alice Cooper, Jeff Lynne and ELO, Rich Mullins, Kiss, Nirvana, Los Lobos, Queensryche, Guns 'n Roses, Moxy Fruvous, and Run DMC."

http://www.wacklepedia.com/t/th/the_...influence.html
come on - that first sentence seems a bit ridiculous.
Use some common sense. It was said in the same vein as the old phrase "Its been said that all the world's a stage".
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:45 AM   #40
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What does the Beatles have to do with Elvis week? And isn't Elvis week over?
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpolio
What does the Beatles have to do with Elvis week? And isn't Elvis week over?
Its the classic argument, of who is better, bigger, more influential- etc. Elvis fans and Beatles fans are amongst the most rabid/dedicated of any artists still to this day. I think both artists are without a doubt the 2 best the world has seen or will ever see. I go with the pioneer, the King- Elvis. Does that make me dislike the Beatles? NO!! #1 and #2 are both in my favs file!!
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Old 08-20-2005, 12:04 AM   #42
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hi az,

i never got the impression that rm was comparing the beatles to elvis. i was simply commenting on his comment about the beatles changing music. i still say that music would be the same with or without the beatles. rock and roll was already rolling when the beatles came along, and it would still be rolling just as big, if they had not been there. with the beatles, came the stones, hermits, dave clark five, and a slew of others at the same time.

elvis happened to be the most popular, biggest artist of all of rock and roll. but that in itself is not what made him crucial. even if he had 10% of the hits that he had, HIS ROLE would have been crucial.

i am not saying that elvis is the only person that could have done what he did - it may not have occurred as soon, but they would more than likely have found another good-looking white kid who could sing - which is what was needed to sell it to the white masses.

but the role that elvis did play was what created rock and roll for the masses. without it, we may never have had rock and roll. the same just is not true for any other artist.

the music would probably be the same without dylan. but not the lyrics. dylan was crucial in the sense of music having deeper lyrics, instead of boy gets girl, boy wants to hold girl's hand, etc.

who was "best" is a matter of opinion, since we probably each use different criteria when reaching that decision.

for example, i never saw michael jordan play basketball, except for some news clips. i know he was very nimble and athletic. and i suspect that most of the posters at sbs would pick him as the best basketball player ever. i won't argue one way or the other about that, because it is too subjective.

but who was most valuable or crucial to their team ? that is easy to answer, as by far and away the answer to that would be bill russell. while i have not followed sports for quite awhile, no one even comes close that i can think of, in terms of value/crucial to their team.

and this is what i am talking about elvis - his role was crucial to creating rock and roll, and evolving music. i don't say that rock and roll is better than the early 50s singers - just that it is totally different.
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