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Old 08-16-2005, 08:27 AM   #121
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Old 08-16-2005, 09:49 AM   #122
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I wrote to Customer Service about this and here is the whole thread. It looks like I'll be suspending my account tomorrow or Thursday.

Thanks for the reply. I certainly hope you keep in mind that people
can hear "sanitized" music on FM radio and don't need to pay $12/mo to
hear it. I'll bet if you put a poll on your main page, you'd find that
a great many people came to Sat Radio to escape the sanitized crap
(probably as many that came to avoid commercials) and listen to songs
and talk shows like adults. I can also tell you that this news has not
been going over very well on the Sirius Backstage Forums and that I am
far from the only one very unhappy about this.

Cheers,
Mike (not so happy Sirius subscriber, for now)

--- Sirius Music Programming <Music_Prog@sirius-radio.com> wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> Thank you for your reply. We are always happy to help!
>
> At this time we are still going over the terms of our agreements with
>
> new partners. "Offering censored music" will more than likely
> translate
> to certain channels playing only censored music 24 hours a day.
> Again,
> we are still in the planning stages of which stations will be
> censored
> that formerly were not censored and whether or not there will be
> additional uncensored channels added to the lineup. We hope this
> information helps!
>
> Michael, we are committed to providing you with the best in customer
> care. If you have any more questions, please feel free to contact
> SIRIUS Customer Care. For your convenience, we are available 24
> hours a
> day, 7 days a week at:
>
> 1-888-539-SIRIUS (7474)
>
> As well as by email at:
>
> www.sirius.com/customercare
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
> SIRIUS Customer Care
>
> Did you know that SIRIUS has great money-saving billing options? You
>
> can get 1-14 months free depending on the option you choose. Call us
> at
> 888-539-SIRIUS (7474) and we?ll help you choose the plan that?s right
>
> for you!
>
> Original Message Follows:
> ------------------------
> Can you define the term "offering censored music"? Do that mean it
> will play radio edits during certain hours, or that the whole channel
> is now censored? And do I understand correctly that there will now
> be
> only two uncensored music channels?
>
> --- Sirius Music Programming <Music_Prog@sirius-radio.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Michael,
> >
> > Thank you for writing us here at SIRIUS. We appreciate your
> comments
> >
> > about our censored music channels on SIRIUS. Due to our partnership
> > with
> > Sprint, some of our music programming will be offering censored
> music
> > on
> > channels:
> >
> > Faction // Channel 28, Alt Nation // Channel 21, First Wave //
> > Channel
> > 22, and Hot Jamz // Channel 50.
> >
> > SIRIUS remains fully dedicated to providing an unparalleled variety
> > of
> > music programming on our 65 commercial free music channels in
> > virtually
> > every genre. Our channels are designed to please subscribers of
> > every
> > listening preference.
> >
> > For our uncensored music, we invite you to continue to listen to
> the
> > following channels:
> >
> > Shade 45 // Channel 45 or Octane // Channel 20.
> > <snipped rest of response>
>
> > Original Message Follows:
> > ------------------------
> > First Name: Michael
> > Last Name: Roell
> > Email Address: vfr_mike@xxxx.xxx
> > Subscriber: Yes
> > Phone Number: XXXXXXXXXX
> > Message: I just read something pretty disturbing on the
> > Siriusbackstage.com Forums. I read where Sirius will now be
> > censoring
> > (radio-editing) music on most channels. Is this correct? I can
> > understand that there are channels like Kids Stuff, Radio Disney,
> > News,
> > etc. that need to be kept clean. But not a single one of the Music
> > or
> > Talk channels should be censored at all. If there *is* any form of
>
> > censoring planned for those channels, I will cancel my membership
> at
> > the
> > end of my current term and not return until the policy is changed.
> >
> >
> >
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Old 08-16-2005, 10:21 AM   #123
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Writing to 1st level customer service won't get you anything but placated that you got a response at all.

I am sitting here at work listening to Faction, the unedited faction.

If and when the time comes that this channel becomes edited, then the channel will die, and Sirius will see that it was in fact a bad idea.

I know some of the Sirius suits through dealings and I am trying to find more out about this through them.

After all it was one of the suits that talked me into signing up in the first place.

I am all for edited programming but not at the expense of current unedited channels.

Don't feed the dog every day for years and then take away his food!

I assume this is a fan run site, and not officially affiliated with Sirius.

Maybe the siriusbackstage site owners should have a big fat notice and petition on the front page. That's what I would do.

Mass signatures make the difference, not writing first level CS.
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Old 08-16-2005, 10:31 AM   #124
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Electronic signatures means diddly squat. Online petitions never go anywhere. Here's food for thought though: If they do decide to censor Faction, you think Jason Ellis is going to take that sitting down? You censor him and you've just stripped down quite a bit of his personality. Glad I have XM and Fungus to fall back on.
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Old 08-16-2005, 10:43 AM   #125
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Quote:
Electronic signatures means diddly squat.
Based on what? I have been in the online industry for over 10 years and I can tell you if you have a signed petition by 1/4 or more of your paid membership base, it can make a difference.

And you are building a buzz that gets recognized. Especially if this site is as big as I think it is.

Then you have Bam and Hawk and all the other channels talking about it on air, and if they can't due to contracts, they will find other ways to do it.

You have to do what you can to keep this from happening.
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:28 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusStevie
Quote:
Electronic signatures means diddly squat.
Based on what? I have been in the online industry for over 10 years and I can tell you if you have a signed petition by 1/4 or more of your paid membership base, it can make a difference.
I've been in the industry as long if not longer, working for Fortune 500 and 100 companies and the federal government, and can tell you from experience large corporations, the government, and even small mom and pops never put stock in petitions like this, because they don't have to. Signatures are too easily forged, duplicated, etc. Most places that do these online petitions don't take the proper steps to verification of the signatures.

Quote:
And you are building a buzz that gets recognized. Especially if this site is as big as I think it is.

Then you have Bam and Hawk and all the other channels talking about it on air, and if they can't due to contracts, they will find other ways to do it.

You have to do what you can to keep this from happening.
Certainly, you could build a buzz, but all it does is build fervor with those that already support your position. It doesn't sway those you are petitioning because again you can't verify any of the buzz you have created.

There are better ways to go about it. Online petitions have proven over and over and over again not to work. Start a letter writing campaign. Start a protest in front of the HQ. Start writing letters to the ed or full blown editorials/opinion pieces for newspapers. That's what corporations pay attention to.
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:56 AM   #127
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If the purpose here is to get into a pissing contest then I will just back off considering you work for Fortune 500 companies and I don't have nearly as many posts as you have here.

You can say what you want about online petitions, but perception is everything and if you want to create a buzz that creates interest from journalists then you or the owners of smaller sites should do what they can to get that buzz going.

Either way every little bit helps, including barraging customer service so they have to go their managers and let them know something is brewing and the natives are not happy.

You're right that if the petitions are not done right, and it isn't from paying members then it doesn't have the effect it was meant to have, but I doubt any of us have access to subscriber lists here.

So we do what we can with what we have and do our best to get the word out.

And if you truly work for F500 companies then use whatever resources you have to make sure this doesn't happen, especially this early in the game.

But maybe just maybe Faction and the other stations that are on the chopping block don't show good numbers. Maybe that isn't where the majority of the listeners are, and in business (you should know this since you work for F500 companies) sometimes you have to sacrifice the weaker product to keep the company going and out of the red. Maybe that's the case here but I honestly have no idea.

AllI know is I really enjoy Faction as is and am very bothered by censorship, especially when I pay for it.
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:02 PM   #128
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If they start losing subs I think they'll listen too. I'm not going that far yet. I'd rather wait and see what pans out. But Faction and Alt Nation will suck if they're censored. I can't even listen to "The Pulse" because they play radio edited songs. I wouldn't mind as much if they just didn't play songs that had radio edits in them. For instance they shouldn't play Kid Rock's "American Bad Ass" on the Pulse.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:05 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusStevie
If the purpose here is to get into a pissing contest then I will just back off considering you work for Fortune 500 companies and I don't have nearly as many posts as you have here.
Nope, not trying to do any pissing, unless I'm all boozed up, then I just can't help it.

Quote:
Either way every little bit helps, including barraging customer service so they have to go their managers and let them know something is brewing and the natives are not happy.
Much better tactic honestly.

Quote:
You're right that if the petitions are not done right, and it isn't from paying members then it doesn't have the effect it was meant to have, but I doubt any of us have access to subscriber lists here.

So we do what we can with what we have and do our best to get the word out.
Agreed.

Quote:
And if you truly work for F500 companies then use whatever resources you have to make sure this doesn't happen, especially this early in the game.

But maybe just maybe Faction and the other stations that are on the chopping block don't show good numbers. Maybe that isn't where the majority of the listeners are, and in business (you should know this since you work for F500 companies) sometimes you have to sacrifice the weaker product to keep the company going and out of the red. Maybe that's the case here but I honestly have no idea.

AllI know is I really enjoy Faction as is and am very bothered by censorship, especially when I pay for it.
See, now here you are thinking. It may just be that Sirius has already done the studies and found tha their listener demographic for these stations is mostly toward the younger crowds (which certainly, they seem to market Faction to if you listen to their bumpers) and figure it's certainly ok to censor that channel. And yes, it's all about the money. If they can make cash with a deal with Sprint, and have to censor to do so, they are betting that they will bring in more subscribers than they lose by entering into this deal.

I likewise am bothered by this whole censorship thing especially when done this late in the game. Customers who are used to a specific level of service usually don't take things like this lightly. Since the satrad market has yet really to boom, I'm sure they are counting on pissing off a few early adopters to snag the much larger yet-to-come market. Joel hit the nail on the head though, without a mass exodus there really isn't going to be much stock taken in the "buzz". As long as people just talk about it and take no action (like cancelling) then it's just that: talk. They still are getting your money.
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Old 08-16-2005, 01:29 PM   #130
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Also keep in mind folks that Sirius staff and management do periodically view this site to see what the buzz is.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:24 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoker
Electronic signatures means diddly squat. Online petitions never go anywhere. Here's food for thought though: If they do decide to censor Faction, you think Jason Ellis is going to take that sitting down? You censor him and you've just stripped down quite a bit of his personality. Glad I have XM and Fungus to fall back on.
XM recently screwed all its subscribers who like metal, when they made Liquid Metal available only to online listeners.

Fungus may eventually meet the same fate.
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Old 08-16-2005, 02:44 PM   #132
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Ok I have heard the censoring on Alt Nation with NIN Only, I thought the first couple times it was just a mistake, then I found this thread and I know it isn't.. Then last night I became even more confused, I emailed customer serivce to complain and was told the channels they are censoring, FACTION//28, ALT NATION//21,FIRST
WAVE//22,and HOT JAMZ//50 this is were the confustion really sets in. I tuned into Radio Bam like I do every monday night thinking that the show would be censored and he would be complaining about it, however it was the same great show with the f-word and every other dirty word no bleeps no skips raw and in my face(one of the many reasons I have Sirius) after the show I jumped over to Alt-Nation to hear NIN Only, cut to hell and back like I was listening to FM again all this just 20 mins after Bam's show ended on Faction. So how can all this be. Anyone have an answer
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:33 PM   #133
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I have a new theory:

Sirius is "testing" this out, see, that's why you're only hearing SOME censored songs. We could see them test other channels other than the 4 mentioned before it is all said and done. They are seeing what the response is from the customers to see which channels would cause the least ruckus to censor.

I also forsee them when the 25% increase comes to offer channels simillar that play uncensored music.

If you go to www.getsiriusinfo.blogspot.com he has a source from Sirius and see what they had to say for yourself.

Don't panic, don't unsub (because anything is better than FM ) it will all pan out I'm sure of that. A

And no, they aren't going to censor Howard, and don't just assume that all of the channels will be censored.
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:34 PM   #134
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I have a new theory:

Sirius is "testing" this out, see, that's why you're only hearing SOME censored songs. We could see them test other channels other than the 4 mentioned before it is all said and done. They are seeing what the response is from the customers to see which channels would cause the least ruckus to censor.

I also forsee them when the 25% increase comes to offer channels simillar that play uncensored music.

If you go to www.getsiriusinfo.blogspot.com he has a source from Sirius and see what they had to say for yourself.

Don't panic, don't unsub (because anything is better than FM ) it will all pan out I'm sure of that. A

And no, they aren't going to censor Howard, and don't just assume that all of the channels will be censored.

EDIT:
Innocent plug , come to the chat tonight to discuss this among other things. Click
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:20 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SISO
I have a new theory:

Sirius is "testing" this out, see, that's why you're only hearing SOME censored songs. We could see them test other channels other than the 4 mentioned before it is all said and done. They are seeing what the response is from the customers to see which channels would cause the least ruckus to censor.

I also forsee them when the 25% increase comes to offer channels simillar that play uncensored music.

If you go to www.getsiriusinfo.blogspot.com he has a source from Sirius and see what they had to say for yourself.

Don't panic, don't unsub (because anything is better than FM ) it will all pan out I'm sure of that. A

And no, they aren't going to censor Howard, and don't just assume that all of the channels will be censored.

EDIT:
Innocent plug , come to the chat tonight to discuss this among other things. Click
Ok this all sounds well and good but as you start out saying " I have a new Theory" that is all it is and that is what most have about what is going on and why.

The only things I know to be the truth are the following
1.) Channels being censored are FACTION//28, ALT NATION//21,FIRST
WAVE//22,and HOT JAMZ//50.
These are from an email sent to me by the Customer Service Rep.

2.) I have heard for myself the raw in your face style of Bam on his faction radio show a "censored" channel.

3.)And I have also heard the crappy Fm Radio version of NIN Only and other songs being played on Alt-Nation another "censored" channel. And other people have reported censored music on this channel as well.

No offense Siso but you nor anyone else has any solid proof that it will "pan out" I don't know maybe you do have inside info, crap for all I know you had lunch with Mel just today I don't know this, but for anyone to sit here and say it will all work out they are listening to us and not the money deal with sprint is bull crap. And to say they are going to add channels that are uncensored to replace these is also stupid, why would you censor channels that already have a big following only to replace them with new ones? Wouldn't it be easier to add new censored channels for sprint, you would think so. I also checked out the blog and wasn't impressed with the info provided there it is more hearsay. Siso I am not trying to jump down your throat I am just trying to make a point that we all need to look at what we know to be fact rather then internet rumors is all. It is nice to throw around ideas about it sure and I don't even have one, I just feel they are making a huge mistake by even attempting to censor there most popular channels, and I hope that someone there is listening to the customer and they stay awake at night wondering if this dumb ass choice they made for the company is going to hurt them or not, and I hope they see the light at the end of the tunnel before it is too late..

Sorry for my rant, however I feel a little better.. sorry everyone.
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