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Old 10-31-2005, 03:07 PM   #16
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Geez Jandek, I agree with RyeGuy. Very well said. Best definition I have heard.
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Old 10-31-2005, 05:36 PM   #17
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I listen to LOC more than anything else on Sirius. Without LOC I seriously think about trading in Sirius to get XM and XMU
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Old 10-31-2005, 06:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeGuy
I agree but disagree. Sure LOC can be improved... you can say that about any channel on Sirius. But for me, living in conservative Cincinnati Ohio, it's a godsend for the alt/indie/college fan. Theres nothing on FM in this area that can even come close.
RIP WOXY.
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:34 PM   #19
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You're right, any station can be improved. I think LOC is especially problematic, though, because the extremely limited playlists and crushing repetition are in direct opposition to the nature of the genre it covers. Indie music is about diversity, passion, eclecticism, deep love for the music; it's not about just wanting to hear one "single" over and over and over and over, mindlessly. LOC puts a top-40 mentality on a genre that is the diametric opposite of top-40 music.[/quote]

ouch.....when I started this thread, this is exactly what I was trying to say, but I'm just not that articulate....good job dude. I hope what you said gets through the clutter. It's perfect.
ANyway, the more I get bummed about this, the more I realize I used to listen to college radio because they took chances, and they didn't have to go for ratings so you could hear all sorts of the incredible music that's out there, without all the repetition and commericals-etc. So I just don't see why Sirius has chosen to present "college radio" the way they have. THey are obviously using the "Power Clock" format with the current hit song played at the top of the hour, then the taped (annoying) "Left of Center" drop in, followed by a 3 song "sweep " and then the dj talks......and on and on.....this tightly controlled format is for Top 40 or CHR radio hands down. College radio was "anti-radio" where anything goes-ya know? So I wish they wouldn't advertise LOC as a college radio type format....oh well.....I only wish they'd start one of those automated stations (like the ones on the Electronic/Dance menu), and use it to play real independent music from all over the world and just not worry about maintaining ratings, dj's or having every song be "upbeat" with the right number of beats per minute.... I would freakin' love it and I could go around with a clipboard here in Boston signing people up to Sirius. .....(then of course after a few months Sirius could say decide the new channel "wasn't successful and it could mysteriously disappear.)
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
I think LOC is especially problematic, though, because the extremely limited playlists and crushing repetition are in direct opposition to the nature of the genre it covers. Indie music is about diversity, passion, eclecticism, deep love for the music; it's not about just wanting to hear one "single" over and over and over and over, mindlessly. LOC puts a top-40 mentality on a genre that is the diametric opposite of top-40 music.
EXACTLY.
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Old 11-01-2005, 12:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher62
So I just don't see why Sirius has chosen to present "college radio" the way they have. THey are obviously using the "Power Clock" format with the current hit song played at the top of the hour, then the taped (annoying) "Left of Center" drop in, followed by a 3 song "sweep " and then the dj talks......and on and on.....this tightly controlled format is for Top 40 or CHR radio hands down. College radio was "anti-radio" where anything goes-ya know?
I don't expect Sirius to go completely freeform the way some college stations do. Maybe if there was enough bandwith for several "indie" streams one could be this way, but given current limitations, I understand that they have a rotation of currently popular "indie" bands. Hell, I even like the idea of a rotation in the sense that if a big band like Wilco or the New Pornographers comes out with a new album, I'll have a decent chance to hear some of the new songs. Now, I'd like to hear a variety of the new songs, not just one or maybe two Sirius-selected "singles".

Here are some simple ideas that would not take that much effort, and would keep the focus of the stream basically the same, but would immeasurably improve things.

1) Catalog tracks. These are always the same. The list of them is tiny compared to even a conservative list of top indie acts and their realtively radio-friendly songs. Pick a few thousand of these. You wouldn't hear them all the time, some might only play once a month or three times a year, but if the list is long enough, this will create a feeling of freshness and spontanaity if mixed in among the current heavy rotation. This could easily include most of the catalogs of big bands they already play, such as Belle & Sebastian, Yo La Tengo, Magnetic Fields, Guided By Voices, as well as dozens upon dozens of bands they don't play at all or only play the most current "single" from: Pernice Brothers, Hefner, Cat Power, Archers of Loaf, Sebadoh, Slint, Superchunk, Silver Jews, Bedhead, Wedding Present, Red House Painters, Lambchop, Velocity Girl, and on and on. The point is not that they don't play this or that specific band, it's that they ignore massive swaths of even the most radio-friendly and enduring indie rock artists.

2) Pay a little attention to what's going on and be ahead on things. Where is the new Sun Kil Moon album of Modest Mouse covers? The promo's been out for weeks. This is a no-brainer. It took them months to pick up on Antony and the Johnsons; by the time they started playing Antony he was already playing Carnegie Hall, for Gods sake. Again, I don't mean to say "the didn't play this specific band", but it seems that they are generally really sluggish and reactive on playing emerging and new indie artists, even when it's glaringly obvious.

3) Daypart management. Play a heavier rotation of the new and popular stuff during drive times. Overnight, loosen up and allow deeper playlists and even some freeform shows.

Maybe someone at Sirius pays attention. Who knows?
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gilpdawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeGuy
I agree but disagree. Sure LOC can be improved... you can say that about any channel on Sirius. But for me, living in conservative Cincinnati Ohio, it's a godsend for the alt/indie/college fan. Theres nothing on FM in this area that can even come close.
RIP WOXY.
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At least they're still streaming online at woxy.com
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:06 PM   #23
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others have already said similar, but i don't see why their playlists couldn't be refined to something more like, [80% entire-indie-catalog, 12% current hits, 8% new-new], and just rotate that. instead, the percentages seem to be more like 10, 60, 30, relatively.

i mean, the bands are obvious.. there are huge catalogues from radiohead, clinic, the white stripes (especially older), Von Bondies, unsigned acts all over; prog rock i wouldn't mind hearing like GSYBE etc; and hundreds of indie acts i'm not cool enough to even know about.

also, would sirius be too hurt to actually play us a full album every once in a while? almost any Radiohead album sounds better in full context for example, and i personally like full-album listens occasionally (my whole digital music collection is almost exclusively full-albums). Sirius (and especially LOC) would be in a position to offer this, at least occasionally. how about "7 full albums at 7" on one night of the week?
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Old 11-02-2005, 11:42 PM   #24
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I don't really look at LOC as an indie/college stream (despite its name)...

For Bostonians...

Octane: WAAF
Alt Nation: WBCN
LOC: WFNX

(Is it just me, or is Boston quite possibly the major market with the best roster of current rock stations on FM?)
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falco98
others have already said similar, but i don't see why their playlists couldn't be refined to something more like, [80% entire-indie-catalog, 12% current hits, 8% new-new], and just rotate that. instead, the percentages seem to be more like 10, 60, 30, relatively.
There are lots of ways you can slice it up, but I think that since there is only one stream for "indie", the new/"hits" portion is going to be fairly high. I think 50/50 would be reasonable. I'm not sure if something can be a "hit" without belonging on Alt Nation, though. I would phrase it as "new songs by big indie bands"...such as when the New Pornographers put out a new album.

The issue is also not only the proportion of catalog tracks at any given time, but how often they are rotated. Not only do catalog tracks get very little play, but they're always the same catalog tracks, over literally years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falco98
also, would sirius be too hurt to actually play us a full album every once in a while? almost any Radiohead album sounds better in full context for example, and i personally like full-album listens occasionally (my whole digital music collection is almost exclusively full-albums). Sirius (and especially LOC) would be in a position to offer this, at least occasionally. how about "7 full albums at 7" on one night of the week?
I'm not sure Sirius (or XM) is allowed to do that; there are different standards for "digital" radio than there are for over-the-air broadcasts; I'm not sure if it's a DMCA issue or just what the RIAA demands, but they can't generally play whole albums.
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Old 11-03-2005, 10:55 AM   #26
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One more observation about modern/indie alternative music on Sirius...

On XM we have XMU which is certainly not perfect. But when they get off track I can switch to Ethel which is usually listenable. If not, Fred generally is.

However, I am stuck when LOC plays one of its many staples. Alt Nation is unlistenable in my opinion and there is nothing like Fred. So it just makes LOC's problems more prominent.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Mehoffer
I listen to Ethel at work and Alt Nation at home and have noticed they shared pretty similar playlists (at least during the day hours when I listen). While Sirius may have more repeats I have no desire for Alt Nation to mix Seal, Meredith Brooks, Third Eye Blind or any other adult alternative artists into their playlist (like Ethel) just for the sake of expanding the playlist. Plus 1st Wave beats any of XM's 80's offerings.
I don't listen to Ethel that much, as I mentioned I just jump over with XMU goes bad. But I haven't ran into the artists you mention. My point was that Ethel plays more innovative alternative music than Alt Nation.
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviramsey
I don't really look at LOC as an indie/college stream (despite its name)...

For Bostonians...

Octane: WAAF
Alt Nation: WBCN
LOC: WFNX

(Is it just me, or is Boston quite possibly the major market with the best roster of current rock stations on FM?)
Man, you are making me homesick for Boston!! I grew up there. Back in the 80's the radio was so good!! They had everything. Even Kiss 108 was good (though now it is a Clear Channel station so I am scared to see what became of it.) WILD may have been AM but even that was good. There was a dance station on AM too that played alot of non mainstream stuff but can't remember the call letters. But by far FNX was my fave!
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:46 PM   #29
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LOC was my favourite channel, but the repetition drove me away! I don't really mind the top-40 style format too much, just would prefer more songs than 40 (most of which are old and have been in heavy rotation for more than a year.) BBC Radio 1 is my currant most listened channel and I think the same format could work for LOC. More mainstream type indie by day and then by night, a looser format going deeper into the indie scene. Perhaps even spotlighting different cities and certainly different genres.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:32 PM   #30
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If LoC's mix of artists was combined with XMU's depth, we might have something.
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