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Old 09-20-2005, 04:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man

A lot of Canadians don't give a rip about the NHL, either.
What??? That definitely isn't true. Canadians live and breathe that sport in droves whether they live in Canada or elsewhere.
yeah, it's kind of hard to believe that a country that has a national "Hockey Day" isn't nuts for the sport. I can't believe there are "a lot of Canadians" that "don't give a rip about the NHL".
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Old 09-20-2005, 08:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
What??? That definitely isn't true. Canadians live and breathe that sport in droves whether they live in Canada or elsewhere. The sport was doomed for financial failure in Canada and would have lost more cities if it didn't have the lockout - it needed a kick in the butt to get it back to reality. The cap and the rule changes will make the game more exciting and challenging to both the casual and hardcore fans.
You make the typically American mistake of thinking that Canadians equate hockey itself with the NHL, like the NHL is the "only game in town" for them. The NHL isn't the "end all" of hockey in Canada.

Canada has national, provincial and regional leagues (adult and juniors) that are enormously popular.

If the NHL is so popular, please explain why it was "doomed for financial failure" there? If the NHL is so popular there, you'd think they'd be filling up arenas several times the size of those used by American teams.

Tampa Bay, Florida isn't exactly known as a hockey mecca. Yet during the 2003-2004 season, they had higher attendance figures than Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary.

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why have mediocre attendance figures, financial problems and a general lack of fan support had some Canadian team owners threatening to move their teams to the U.S.?

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why did Canadians strongly reject a taxpayer bailout of the Canadian-based teams that was proposed by the government a few years back?

I'm not disputing that HOCKEY ITSELF is immensely popular in Canada. However, the NHL is not nearly as popular.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man

You make the typically American mistake of thinking that Canadians equate hockey itself with the NHL, like the NHL is the "only game in town" for them. The NHL isn't the "end all" of hockey in Canada.

Canada has national, provincial and regional leagues (adult and juniors) that are enormously popular.

If the NHL is so popular, please explain why it was "doomed for financial failure" there? If the NHL is so popular there, you'd think they'd be filling up arenas several times the size of those used by American teams.

Tampa Bay, Florida isn't exactly known as a hockey mecca. Yet during the 2003-2004 season, they had higher attendance figures than Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary.

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why have mediocre attendance figures, financial problems and a general lack of fan support had some Canadian team owners threatening to move their teams to the U.S.?

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why did Canadians strongly reject a taxpayer bailout of the Canadian-based teams that was proposed by the government a few years back?

I'm not disputing that HOCKEY ITSELF is immensely popular in Canada. However, the NHL is not nearly as popular.
True to a certain degree. But... Calgary has just about SOLD OUT for the whole season. I don't think Toronto is going to have ticket sale problems and I bet Vancouver does pretty well to. TSN (Canada's ESPN) has a full slate of games on it's network, and for the first time will be showing games in HD. I don't think that TSN would bother investing in HD coverage of the games if they didn't see an audience. Remeber the the HD adoption rate in Canada is much lower that in the US.

XM got the NHL deal because they see money in it, not cause they are great hockey fans. Although they should be!
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petteri
XM got the NHL deal because they see money in it, not cause they are great hockey fans. Although they should be!

Yeah... Money they'll never recoup and be one of the death nails that go into their bankrupt coffin some day. This kind of investment reminds me of buying tech stocks in 1999.
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:45 PM   #35
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Default Hockey Hockey Hockey...

I love hockey. I used to work in hockey (albeit a minor league team), however, now I work in college athletics. Anyway, I loved hockey and it is one of the MAIN reasons I ended up getting sirius (to listen to game when driving at night). HOWEVER since getting sirius I have found myself throughly enjoying almost all the channels. So I won't be cutting ties with Sirius because they lost hockey.

Not having hockey is going to cost SIRIUS some customers. Anyone who says differently has no clue on how some people make decisions. However, the question to be asked is will it cost them so many customers that they go bankrupt? ABSOLUTELY NOT and onece again anyone who says otherwise has no clue in how things work either. The truth is same thing goes for XM when they lose or gain sports for the same reasons.

Everyone who is posting that the NHL is in trouble is correct. They are in deep trouble. I will miss hockey on SIRIUS, but I won't run and buy XM because of it. Hockey is best in person. I love watching it on tv and don't mind listening to it on the radio, but it isn't the same as it is in person and for that reason alone I don't think this deal has any impact whatsoever.

Personally, I'd rather watch/listen to a minor league game any day of the week over the NHL and if you go and talk to people in Canada they will say the same thing. IF and this is a big IF SiriusCanada signed an agreement with some of the more popular minor league teams and there was a way to track which people bought Sirius just for that and which people bought XM just for the NHL, more people in Canada would buy Sirius, however, the numbers buying either service for one sport are slim so in essence it wouldn't really matter anyway (but that isn't denying that their aren't any people out there who buy just for one sport...there are a lot of people out there like that...but not enough to make or break a product like Sat. Radio that offers so much more.)

These are just my opinions and I know some will disagree with me, however, I also cannot fathom how anyone can listen to any sport on the radio other than a baseball game. I LOVE college football, if I wasn't in sports info and had my own games to run on Saturday's I would sit in front of a tv all day long and watch nothing but all the games. But I won't listen to any college football game on the radio unless it is the school I graduated from. Same goes for hockey I LOVE IT, but unless it is the Blackhawks, I don't care to listen to it on the radio, it is much better on TV and EVEN better in person (well not the Blackhawks, because they are just so frustrating...but that's another story). But once again that is me...
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:23 AM   #36
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I agree with a lot of your analysis, HawksFan.

Losing the NHL isn't going to put a serious dent in Sirius's Canadian venture.

If they can nail down a long term contract with the Canadian Football League and one of the major Canadian hockey leagues, I think they'll come out smelling like roses.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:03 AM   #37
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wow... did someone say that xm is going to go bankrupt someday because of a 10 million a dollar a year content deal????????
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaissance Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
What??? That definitely isn't true. Canadians live and breathe that sport in droves whether they live in Canada or elsewhere. The sport was doomed for financial failure in Canada and would have lost more cities if it didn't have the lockout - it needed a kick in the butt to get it back to reality. The cap and the rule changes will make the game more exciting and challenging to both the casual and hardcore fans.
You make the typically American mistake of thinking that Canadians equate hockey itself with the NHL, like the NHL is the "only game in town" for them. The NHL isn't the "end all" of hockey in Canada.

Canada has national, provincial and regional leagues (adult and juniors) that are enormously popular.

If the NHL is so popular, please explain why it was "doomed for financial failure" there? If the NHL is so popular there, you'd think they'd be filling up arenas several times the size of those used by American teams.

Tampa Bay, Florida isn't exactly known as a hockey mecca. Yet during the 2003-2004 season, they had higher attendance figures than Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary.

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why have mediocre attendance figures, financial problems and a general lack of fan support had some Canadian team owners threatening to move their teams to the U.S.?

If the NHL is so popular in Canada, why did Canadians strongly reject a taxpayer bailout of the Canadian-based teams that was proposed by the government a few years back?

I'm not disputing that HOCKEY ITSELF is immensely popular in Canada. However, the NHL is not nearly as popular.
Well being born and raised a Canadian for 25 years I can vouch that kids see an idol like Gretzky or Lemieux or Sidney Crosby, their dream is to play in the NHL and be a superstar. NHL is the pinnacle of hockey but of course the minors and other leagues pack them in too with parents, fans and scouts.

It's doomed for failure because of pure economics. The cost of running business in Canada and payments in US dollars is much higher than in the US even with the improved Canadian dollar recently. Canadians just simply don't, on average, have the same disposable income that a US fan has. Canadians rejected the bailout because they already pay heavy taxes on everything. A bailout means government intervention and Canadians are moving towards privatization of everything.

Those Canadian cities are small markets and you can't compare it to southern Florida.
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petteri

True to a certain degree. But... Calgary has just about SOLD OUT for the whole season. I don't think Toronto is going to have ticket sale problems and I bet Vancouver does pretty well to. TSN (Canada's ESPN) has a full slate of games on it's network, and for the first time will be showing games in HD. I don't think that TSN would bother investing in HD coverage of the games if they didn't see an audience. Remeber the the HD adoption rate in Canada is much lower that in the US.

XM got the NHL deal because they see money in it, not cause they are great hockey fans. Although they should be!
The major markets: Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have a very strong season ticket fan base. It is tough for the casual fan to get any tickets. And the days of promotions to increase ticket sales is long gone and never needed anymore. Canada also has a channel called Sportsnet which is regional and is comparable to Fox Sports in the US. Sportsnet is much more popular than TSN for hockey in depth of coverage and the commentators.
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Old 09-21-2005, 05:01 PM   #40
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Hockey is NOT a dying sport. No business with over 2 Billion dollars in revenue can be considered a dying sport. The league has fixed it self. No more over spending. Salaries are tied to revenues.

Will some Sirius customers switch over to XM because of the NHL coverage. Yes, some will. Not enough to make a dent.

I live in Canada and I bought Sirius over XM because of the NHL and NFL. Will I switch, no. Why, because I also like other stations. Sirius is #1 in my books.

What should Sirius do in return to attract more Canadian subs. Simple, get the CFL. It will cost approx 1 million to get it per year. Do it! Slap the NHL logo and CFL logo, Stern, NFL, Nascar, Martha on all boxes for the next two years and I guarentee more will sign up with Sirius in Canada.

Doesn't matter if the NHL is gone in two years, get the fan base now and people will like the content and decide to stay with Sirius.
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite09

What should Sirius do in return to attract more Canadian subs. Simple, get the CFL. It will cost approx 1 million to get it per year. Do it! Slap the NHL logo and CFL logo, Stern, NFL, Nascar, Martha on all boxes for the next two years and I guarentee more will sign up with Sirius in Canada.

Doesn't matter if the NHL is gone in two years, get the fan base now and people will like the content and decide to stay with Sirius.
Most Americans have no clue what the CFL is and how it differs to NFL. The CFL is losing players all the time to the more lucrative NFL. I can't see the value add to Sirius to get the CFL since it is a Canadian only sport. Might as well get curling too.

Has the popularity of the CFL ever reached the peak it had during the Ron Lancaster days? I don't think so. Didn't I read that the Esks or Stamps were in financial difficulty?
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:17 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
I can't see the value add to Sirius to get the CFL since it is a Canadian only sport. Might as well get curling too.
Are you joking? Adding the CFL would surely make the hurt of losing the NHL go away!
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:17 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite09

What should Sirius do in return to attract more Canadian subs. Simple, get the CFL. It will cost approx 1 million to get it per year. Do it! Slap the NHL logo and CFL logo, Stern, NFL, Nascar, Martha on all boxes for the next two years and I guarentee more will sign up with Sirius in Canada.

Doesn't matter if the NHL is gone in two years, get the fan base now and people will like the content and decide to stay with Sirius.
Most Americans have no clue what the CFL is and how it differs to NFL. The CFL is losing players all the time to the more lucrative NFL. I can't see the value add to Sirius to get the CFL since it is a Canadian only sport. Might as well get curling too.

Has the popularity of the CFL ever reached the peak it had during the Ron Lancaster days? I don't think so. Didn't I read that the Esks or Stamps were in financial difficulty?
I am talking about Canadian subs. How to attract them. I know most Americans could care less about the CFL and probably the NHL. The loss in revenue to the NHL deal is with the die hard NHL fans in the USA and subs in Canada. How do you replace those, well the die hard NHL fans in the states might go to XM, the subs in Canada would want to see the CFL.

If XM gets the CFL and NHL, Sirius Canada will start far behind, again.
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headbangerharry
The major markets: Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal have a very strong season ticket fan base. It is tough for the casual fan to get any tickets. And the days of promotions to increase ticket sales is long gone and never needed anymore. Canada also has a channel called Sportsnet which is regional and is comparable to Fox Sports in the US. Sportsnet is much more popular than TSN for hockey in depth of coverage and the commentators.
Yeah, I didn't mention Sportsnet...do they show games on a natiowide basis or just on the regional level? I watched Sportsnet (Grey market BEV subscriber) at the end of the lockout for the great coverage they provided. I still think that overall this a good move for XM. They add the NHL channel, which I'm guessing will be produced in Toronto, to count toward the "CANCON" requirement, and get a ton of play as the "home" of the NHL. Betmann just mentioned them at the "My NHL" press conference. XM also likes to advertise at the sports they cover so I won't be too suprised to see a few XM logos on the ice or boards around the league this winter. I wonder if they will add repeaters in the arenas so people can listen to the play by play on a MyFi....
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:04 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petteri

Yeah, I didn't mention Sportsnet...do they show games on a natiowide basis or just on the regional level?
regional only but they have nationwide news with feeds from regional
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