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Old 01-05-2007, 08:33 PM   #1
Timiletto
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Default Satellite Live. Hot Stiletto.

When I listen to recorded material the stiletto never gets warm because the screen will go dark after several minutes. However, it won't go dark during live satellite play. The top back of it gets warm (even at the lowest display settings), almost hot. Hey DAB, is this an issue I should be concerned with, and could it be remedied (go dark) with a firmware update? Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:33 PM   #2
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Its not a screen thing, the Sat chips run very warm. I notice that it gets even hotter with the silicon case on the unit.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timiletto
The top back of it gets warm (even at the lowest display settings), almost hot. Hey DAB, is this an issue I should be concerned with, and could it be remedied (go dark) with a firmware update? Thanks!
No this is totally normal when running live sat radio, so there is nothing to be concerned with. The backlighting isn't what is causing the heat, it is the sat chipset, which is located behind the display. The tuner will on average run around 140 degrees. Even moreso with a case on it this is why it isn't recommended to operate it while charging especially with a case on it because it gets down right hot.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB
it is the sat chipset, which is located behind the display. The tuner will on average run around 140 degrees.
Wow, that's like up in the range comptuer processors run at... is PAC that hard to decode?
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:29 AM   #5
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Wow, that's like up in the range comptuer processors run at... is PAC that hard to decode?
I really don't know if that is what causes SIRIUS's chipsets to run so hot or not. I know XM's run much color and are less power hungry.

What is really funny is that they are a lot smaller, use less power and run much cooler than the previous version. The old original PNP with the 2.0g chipsets would get so hot you could just about cook on them. I remember the old metal wide top of the Kenwood H2A. It would get so hot I use to kid my son about cooking our eggs on it in the mornings.

I am just wondering if another chipset version is going to be able to address this heat issue to bring it down even more of if this is in fact a result of PAC being that hard to decode. Interesting!
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:54 AM   #6
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Hello i just wanted to add my 2 cents on this problem. when i remove my stiletto 100 from the car dock go into work and log into the internet my stiletto gets extremely hot someone recommended that i remove the battery first then connect to the interenet so thats what i do every morning and i havent had any problems since. One day i forgot to remove the battery and i did notice that the stiletto 100 got really hot and when this happens it eats the battery power too. i just removed the battery and reinstalled it and all is good. hope this helps wdwrd68
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:52 AM   #7
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wdwrd68, That is a known bug, sometimes the Sat chips don't turn off when you switch from Sat radio to Internet radio.
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Old 01-06-2007, 03:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdwrd68
when i remove my stiletto 100 from the car dock go into work and log into the internet my stiletto gets extremely hot someone recommended that i remove the battery first then connect to the interenet so thats what i do every morning and i havent had any problems since. One day i forgot to remove the battery and i did notice that the stiletto 100 got really hot and when this happens it eats the battery power too.
Yes I found this bug within days of having the device. I was told they had never seen this issue in pre-testing. I eventually had to send my tuner into them for testing, which I did do. I am just hoping this is addressed in the next ZAP update.

The other thing this impacts is Library Playback. I get on and off skipping when playing stuff out of my Libary. If I make sure the sat chipset is off, I do not have this problem.

So apparently no matter which mode you switch too the sat chip sometimes (most of the time) just doesn't shut off. The battery drain is the biggest issue though. You think you've got several hours of battery life to find out you really only had 4 hours.

By the way you do not really have to remove the battery. You can just do a hard shut down and this will resolve this problem too.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:02 PM   #9
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Dab, how do you do a hard shut down without pulling the battery?
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAB
I really don't know if that is what causes SIRIUS's chipsets to run so hot or not. I know XM's run much color and are less power hungry.

What is really funny is that they are a lot smaller, use less power and run much cooler than the previous version. The old original PNP with the 2.0g chipsets would get so hot you could just about cook on them. I remember the old metal wide top of the Kenwood H2A. It would get so hot I use to kid my son about cooking our eggs on it in the mornings.

I am just wondering if another chipset version is going to be able to address this heat issue to bring it down even more of if this is in fact a result of PAC being that hard to decode. Interesting!
The thing I'm wondering is, Sirius uses (at least from what I've read) an 'enhanced version' of the PAC codec, with VBR enabled (controlled by S-PLEX system). No SBR, Parametric Stereo, or other things that are processor intensive to help improve the audio, and you can still fry an egg on the things.

XM, on the other hand, uses a new, state of the art aacPlus codec with SBR enabled to help with the high frequencies. They don't use VBR though. And their radios run REALLY cool.

I'm having trouble believing that the only thing contributing to the high processor usage (and thus heat) is just the codec. The fact that sirius uses variable bitrate was suspect at first, but then I realized the fact XM uses SBR more than makes up for it. I'm wondering if Sirius has some weird modulation scheme going on or if the way they handle the satellite switching (when one dips below the equator and another one comes up, the one going below the equator is shut off until it goes around and comes back up) is what's causing the units to have to have a powerful enough processor that manages to produce all that heat.

This would be an interesting topic to delve into with some of our more knowledgeable members, as my knowledge is only basic when it comes to audio codecs, and VERY LITTLE when it comes to the way the satellite systems work (I know more than most, but i'm not a rocket scientist by any stretch of the imagination ).
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Last edited by snakester; 01-06-2007 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDCHawk
Dab, how do you do a hard shut down without pulling the battery?
Holding the power button down for 5 seconds. I never pull the battery unless the unit is frozen.. which fortunately for me has only happened once.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakester
I'm wondering if Sirius has some weird modulation scheme going on or if the way they handle the satellite switching (when one dips below the equator and another one comes up, the one going below the equator is shut off until it goes around and comes back up) is what's causing the units to have to have a powerful enough processor that manages to produce all that heat.
Yes this is an interesting topic.

I know that initially Sirius had fits with the chipsets due to the moving sats. In fact they were scheduled to launch before XM, but due to these technical problems XM got off the ground first. I think your statement above is probably pretty close to the real issue with the heat. I don't see the codec is being that big of a factor.
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Old 01-06-2007, 04:28 PM   #13
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from wikipedia


Receiver Technology
At the heart of a Sirius receiver is a custom ASIC chip called the baseband processor, currently the STA240, which is produced by STMicroelectronics. The chip contains embedded ARM7TDMI and ARM946E-S microprocessors synthesized from IP cores. The ARM7 handles decryption keys and subscription mechanisms, while the ARM9 handles audio decompression and control interface functions. The firmware uses eCos for its operating system. Every baseband processor has a unique serial number (or Siris ID), burned into it at the factory, which is an essential part of the subscription mechanism. Another major section of a Sirius receiver is its tuner. The tuner is also comprised of a custom ASIC, one of which is the STA210. The tuner connects to the antenna, and receives the incoming satellite and terrestrial signals at 2.3 GHz and downcoverts them to intermediate frequency signals at around 75 MHz. The IF signals are fed to the STA240, which are digitized, demodulated, de-interleaved, and decrypted using specialized circuits on the chip. The baseband processor utilizes a 16 MB SDRAM memory to buffer four seconds of one of the satellite signals in order to bring it into time coincidence with the other for Maximal-ratio combining. On newer receivers that let you "pause" live radio, a dual-port PSRAM is employed to store up to 44 minutes of the selected channel. The baseband processor outputs digital audio over an I²S interface, which is fed to a D/A converter to produce the analog audio signal. The front-end of a Sirius receiver is called the head unit, required to display text and provide controls to the user. This is implemented by the third-party designers of Sirius-ready receivers, using a microprocessor of their choice. The head unit and baseband processor communicate over an RS-232 interface, speaking the Sirius Standard Protocol.
As of November, 2006, Canadian-targeted channels 185 Canada Weather, 187 Info Plus, 188 RCI Plus, 192 Rock Velours, and 193 Energie 2 only appear for U.S. subscribers on newer receivers. Sirius has not yet revealed why these channels, which debuted on September 26, 2006, are not available to users with older equipment. Speculation on one fan site suggests that these channels use the new hierarchical modulation system which is only implemented on the newer receivers. In spite of this, Sirius continues to list the Canadian-targeted channels on promotional materials, with no disclaimer
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:27 PM   #14
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So what you're saying is that they've had HM active since Sirius Canada launched? I don't find that very plausible... usually sirius will say something that can give them an advantage over the competition, and that would be one of those things (with HM, they can add more channels if they want to... although, seeing some other threads, it seems that they have no intention of doing that and are instead focused on video, which is NOT what we're paying them for)
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTMC
Speculation on one fan site suggests that these channels use the new hierarchical modulation system which is only implemented on the newer receivers. In spite of this, Sirius continues to list the Canadian-targeted channels on promotional materials, with no disclaimer
Clearly this is bad speculation, because there is NOTHING that indicates they are using HM at this point... I think snakester is correct in that if they actually had this it would have been announced.
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