Digital Radio Central - Sponsored by TSS Radio
  DRC Home Page DRC Forums Contact Us  
 
SIRIUS Backstage Forum
 
 
 
  Sirius Satellite Radio XM Satellite Radio iTunes/iPod Slacker Pandora  
 
 
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >
Visit Digital Radio Central

Notices

The Doghouse Here is where people are talking everything not SIRIUS related. So be cool, be smart and have something to say!

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
 
Old 10-14-2006, 04:44 AM   #91
Manco
Top Dog Member
Hydrogen
 
Manco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 30, 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 15,450
Manco will become famous soon enoughManco will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
can you think of something that some other country has had before we had ?
The French have the Bidet. It still hasn't caught on here
Manco is offline  
 
 
Old 10-14-2006, 04:49 AM   #92
Manco
Top Dog Member
Hydrogen
 
Manco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 30, 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 15,450
Manco will become famous soon enoughManco will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the overwhelming savings will be with our automobiles. the oil that we use in the refineries for electricity, can be very efficient. our automobiles are 15-20% efficient. by that, i mean that only about 15-20% of the energy burned actually goes to make the car move. with a hydrogen car, it would be 100% or close to it.

so our waste, all around, is minimal - unlike today.
Your facts might be right, but the conclusion is wrong. From what I've read producing hydrogen takes as much energy as it gives when factoring in the inefficiencies in vehicles. The only difference is the energy is used from electricity which mostly comes from Fossil fuels. Until we get sufficient cleaner sources of electricity generation such as Nuclear, Wind, Solar etc, the impact of hydrogen on improving the environment will be minimal.
Manco is offline  
 
 
Old 10-14-2006, 01:21 PM   #93
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

hi manco,

if my facts are correct, then my conclusion is definitely correct. what you have heard questions the accuracy of my facts.

i dont doubt for a second that there are some urls touting that hydrogen is more expensive than it is worth, etc., etc. but just for kicks, could you post one that supports your thought pattern on it ?

but even if we assumed that what you are saying is correct, AT THE MOMENT - i.e. that it takes as much energy, factoring in the inefficiencies. dont you think that this would be a great starting point ?

there is a draw on the energy, a HUMONGOUS, MONSTROUS effect on the pollution, with better health for all, and possibly some evidence towards whether we humans have anything to do with global warming.

not to mention the fact that we are comparing hydrogen at its infancy to oil, at a time way past when it should be. once on the hydrogen highway, we will see tons of improvements.

i can just see the horse and buggy guys, now. man, them automobiles are so expensive. and you cant drive them on any of these dirt paths. and you gotta crank them for 10 minutes if you hope to get it started, etc. etc. etc.

now we have paved streets and freeways and highways, with tons of automobiles. cant recall when i saw someone driving a horse and buggy.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 10-14-2006, 05:29 PM   #94
TheScionicMan
Sirius Star
 
TheScionicMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2006
Location: In the Hot Tub
Posts: 8,433
TheScionicMan has a spectacular aura aboutTheScionicMan has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Ramius
Global warming is, IMO, a myth.

...

Logically, we have decades or centuries ahead before we can reverse the damage that's been done. That should be a sufficient timeframe to develop alternatives. If it isn't, we're screwed anyway, so we might as well be comfortable.
If it's a myth, why do you need to reverse the damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
Considering they only go about 30 at max... no. Although I have been to the lab where all those crash movies are filmed and they are only going about 40pmh when that dummy goes crashing through the window.
Not true any more. I see this car on my commute usually once or twice a week:



http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/feature.jsp?id=241
__________________
--------------------------------

LUABASI
TheScionicMan is offline  
 
 
Old 10-16-2006, 11:38 AM   #95
Capn Ramius
Top Dog Member
 
Capn Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,181
Capn Ramius will become famous soon enoughCapn Ramius will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScionicMan
If it's a myth, why do you need to reverse the damage?
Way to take things out of context, TSM!

Actually, that quote is very old, from before we refined our lexicon. What I was referring to, but didn't know the vernacular for, was anthropogenic global warming (AGW).

I have started at least two thread on global warming; 'An Inconvenient Truth For Liberals', and 'The Left's REAL Global Warming Agenda'. You are a little late in the game, but I'm sure you can find a lot of things I posted to nitpick in those two threads, if Settembrini left you any. He's pretty good at finding and taking the cheap shots, so you'll have a lot of competition.
__________________
“… we meet the right sort, this-will- work. We get some, buckaroo…”
Capn Ramius is offline  
 
 
Old 10-16-2006, 02:39 PM   #96
TheScionicMan
Sirius Star
 
TheScionicMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2006
Location: In the Hot Tub
Posts: 8,433
TheScionicMan has a spectacular aura aboutTheScionicMan has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Ramius
Way to take things out of context, TSM!

Actually, that quote is very old, from before we refined our lexicon. What I was referring to, but didn't know the vernacular for, was anthropogenic global warming (AGW).

I have started at least two thread on global warming; 'An Inconvenient Truth For Liberals', and 'The Left's REAL Global Warming Agenda'. You are a little late in the game, but I'm sure you can find a lot of things I posted to nitpick in those two threads, if Settembrini left you any. He's pretty good at finding and taking the cheap shots, so you'll have a lot of competition.
Wow, i didn't realize there were prerequisite reading required before trying to understand your posts in this one. I guess you are just on too high of a level for us ordinary posters to comprehend... Whatever dude, just say it so it makes sense and get off your high horse...

This whole thread is outdated and uninformed. Enjoy it...
__________________
--------------------------------

LUABASI
TheScionicMan is offline  
 
 
Old 10-16-2006, 02:47 PM   #97
Capn Ramius
Top Dog Member
 
Capn Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,181
Capn Ramius will become famous soon enoughCapn Ramius will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScionicMan
Wow, i didn't realize there were prerequisite reading required before trying to understand your posts in this one.

This whole thread is outdated and uninformed.
Not prerequisite. Just prior. Everything doesn't revolve around you, TSM.

It is an older thread (as I've said three times now), but one that people, gymeejet for instance, finds interesting and is passionate about. If it doesn't meet your requirements for being informed, add to it. Show us how knowledgeable you are. Regale us with your wisdom!

If you just want to be a pest, buzz off!
__________________
“… we meet the right sort, this-will- work. We get some, buckaroo…”
Capn Ramius is offline  
 
 
Old 10-16-2006, 03:00 PM   #98
TheScionicMan
Sirius Star
 
TheScionicMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2006
Location: In the Hot Tub
Posts: 8,433
TheScionicMan has a spectacular aura aboutTheScionicMan has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Ramius
Not prerequisite. Just prior. Everything doesn't revolve around you, TSM.

It is an older thread (as I've said three times now), but one that people, gymeejet for instance, finds interesting and is passionate about. If it doesn't meet your requirements for being informed, add to it. Show us how knowledgeable you are. Regale us with your wisdom!

If you just want to be a pest, buzz off!
It apparently revolves around you. i simply asked for clarification to something that didn't make sense to me. If someone else has been pestering you, please don't take it out on me.
__________________
--------------------------------

LUABASI
TheScionicMan is offline  
 
 
Old 10-17-2006, 12:43 PM   #99
RoadClosed
Sirius Star
 
RoadClosed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Posts: 5,758
RoadClosed will become famous soon enoughRoadClosed will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Not true any more. I see this car on my commute usually once or twice a week:
I was just in London. Wish I would have seen one. Cool car. Next step. It can reach 60 MPH in 15 seconds with a 93 mile range.

They say its "perfectly" safe. But 2 5000 psi hydrogen tanks under the back seat? Everything is always a trade off.
__________________
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


God does not believe in Athiests. Therefore they do not exist.
RoadClosed is offline  
 
 
Old 10-17-2006, 09:15 PM   #100
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

hi rc,

in a hydrogen segment that i saw within the year, they showed a piece of solid hydrogen, that could be used as fuel. now, i am guessing that this would be hydrogen combined with something to solidify it, but you could place it in a "gas tank", and operate an electric engine.

one of the complaints about hydrogen is that we would need to have our service stations all revamped. but we could actually have them disappear altogether, as far as them being places where we bought fuel. a solid bar could be sold in any kind of store.

the upside to hydrogen is so high that none of us can see that far. those that are in control of the energy industry want it to stay that way - OUR ONLY REAL OBSTACLE, and by far our biggest hurdle to overcome. everything else is already very do-able. that is why, despite the rest of you thinking i was crazy, would love to have gas go to $100 a gallon, and stay there. because then we would force the energy industry to give us something much better, and something that is already ready to roll out.

people would be surprised to see how fast these "problems with hydrogen" would be fixed, if said fixing was dependent on the energy industry keeping their profits going.

i hadnt started driving yet when the first gas crisis hit - i think in the early 70's. but i recall older people telling me this was all a game that the oil companies were playing. and i can recall being scared, not believing them, and wondering if our gas was gonna run out on us. but i eventually got wise.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 10-17-2006, 09:27 PM   #101
Manco
Top Dog Member
Hydrogen
 
Manco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 30, 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 15,450
Manco will become famous soon enoughManco will become famous soon enough
Default

Hydrogen economy will come when there is an economic reason to do the shift. People need a reason to purchase a different technology. Electric vehicles failed because there was no economic benefit to owning one (home electricity isn't cheaper than gasoline) and you couldn't drive one further than a couple hundred miles before recharging. Hybrids are succeeding because there is an economic benefit to owning one, and they can use the existing fuel that is available everywhere.
Manco is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2006, 12:05 AM   #102
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

you are kidding, right ?

it will come when the wealth and the oil industry choose to want to sell it to us. no sooner. no later.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2006, 12:50 AM   #103
TheScionicMan
Sirius Star
 
TheScionicMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2006
Location: In the Hot Tub
Posts: 8,433
TheScionicMan has a spectacular aura aboutTheScionicMan has a spectacular aura about
Default

I think it is misguided to try and develop this technology on the auto platform. I think they should start with some of the larger energy using companies and develop it on a large scale and then look to shrink it down and make it portable. Instead of letting companies buy or trade pollution credits, let them buy into the hydrogen program.
__________________
--------------------------------

LUABASI
TheScionicMan is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2006, 09:43 AM   #104
Manco
Top Dog Member
Hydrogen
 
Manco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 30, 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 15,450
Manco will become famous soon enoughManco will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
you are kidding, right ?

it will come when the wealth and the oil industry choose to want to sell it to us. no sooner. no later.
I'm not kidding. You even made the point yourself when you said that if Gas was at $100/gal that the hydrogen idea would be adopted. I agree with that because there would be a reason for people to make a switch from gas fueled vehicles to an alternative that is "less expensive" to drive. If all things are equal in cost of ownership, people will select what they are most familiar with, and the one that is more universally maintainable. But once you make it more expensive to own a gas powered car than a hydrogen vehicle, then you will get people to switch.

Gym, how much does it cost to produce hydrogen today and how is it produced? Most of the hydrogen is produced from oil, coal and electricity (4% from electricity) as the energy basis. Tons of this are used in production of Ammonia that is used in the agriculture fertilizer business. Until you get rid of the oil connection to hydrogen you still have a resource issue. The hydrogen economy needs to have electricity from sources such as nuclear, wind, solar etc in order to get off of the oil dependency.

I think you are so biased against the oil industry, that you are blinding yourself to the big picture of the total hydrogen economy. It takes energy to produce hydrogen, and until you create enough electricity from sources other than oil you haven't made any impact on the oil dependency issue.
Manco is offline  
 
 
Old 10-18-2006, 09:58 AM   #105
Capn Ramius
Top Dog Member
 
Capn Ramius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,181
Capn Ramius will become famous soon enoughCapn Ramius will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
in a hydrogen segment that i saw within the year, they showed a piece of solid hydrogen, that could be used as fuel.
I heard something about that mentioned on the radio, but could never find an article about it.

Could you dig it up and post it, gym?
__________________
“… we meet the right sort, this-will- work. We get some, buckaroo…”
Capn Ramius is offline  
 
 
 

Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >


Digitalradiocentral.com




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:50 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.39 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All Content Copyright SIRIUS Backstage. All Rights Reserved. SIRIUS and registered trademarks are the property of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc. The opinions posted on SIRIUS Backstage website and forums are those of the individual posters and/or this website and are not necessarily the opinions or positions of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc.