Digital Radio Central - Sponsored by TSS Radio
  DRC Home Page DRC Forums Contact Us  
 
SIRIUS Backstage Forum
 
 
 
  Sirius Satellite Radio XM Satellite Radio iTunes/iPod Slacker Pandora  
 
 
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >
Visit Digital Radio Central

Notices

The Doghouse Here is where people are talking everything not SIRIUS related. So be cool, be smart and have something to say!

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
 
Old 11-02-2005, 10:12 AM   #151
RoadClosed
Sirius Star
 
RoadClosed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Posts: 5,758
RoadClosed will become famous soon enoughRoadClosed will become famous soon enough
Default

That's cool but I looked around that site and it seems anti-man. But could be a false conclusion.

The last link I posted earlier is a URL that concludes and explains the mechanism that leads to the nature of a universe expanding faster than light. Its pretty much in arguable.


http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=575
__________________
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


God does not believe in Athiests. Therefore they do not exist.
RoadClosed is offline  
 
 
Old 11-02-2005, 02:32 PM   #152
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
That's cool but I looked around that site and it seems anti-man. But could be a false conclusion.
no, if i recall - the url was a woman libber type of site. however, recall that my first knowledge of such was in the pbs special. i never knew that his first wife was even a physicist, much less a very good one. and then came to light how he treated her, in other regards.

the libber site - i would have been willing to take with a grain of salt, except that what it was saying, seemed to check out. the preston stuff was true, and i had never heard of that before. so i now have some strong reservations as to just what the true scoop is on it.

i definitely look at the information giver, to see if i think they have their own angle to a situation. but even if i suspect an angle, i dont necessarily disregard the info. the info about preston seemed to be true, so i could not discount it, just because i may not have liked or agreed with the supplier of the info.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 12:30 AM   #153
leviramsey
Sirius Star
 
leviramsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 01, 2004
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 1,186
leviramsey is on a distinguished road
Default

I defer to David Hume...

The very question as to whether God exists is nonsensical and irrational. Neither the statement "It is true that God exists" nor the statement that "It is not true that God exists" is rationally defensible as a simple application of Hume's Fork can demonstrate. There's nothing in the definitions of the terms that makes either analytically true; there's no sense data that absolutely demonstrates that either is true.
__________________
In the dog days, people look to Sirius.

Howard 99: What Came Before Howard 100!
Previous Track: The home of even-later classic rock
'90s Download: All the hits of the '90s
leviramsey is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 08:47 AM   #154
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviramsey
There's nothing in the definitions of the terms that makes either analytically true; there's no sense data that absolutely demonstrates that either is true.
I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy.

Either there is some magical supernatural sentience that created the world or there is not. Its existence is not dependent upon our ability to perceive it.

It's like the question "is there a dime stuck in the back of NYC Taxi 456CD?" If there is, it's there whether or not people ever find it...
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 12:14 PM   #155
leviramsey
Sirius Star
 
leviramsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 01, 2004
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 1,186
leviramsey is on a distinguished road
Default

I am not saying whether or not God exists. (Personally, I tend towards deism).

I am saying there is no rationally supportable justification for either position. The question transcends human understanding and does come down to a matter of first principles.

Incidentally, the fork can be applied (with the same result) to induction (which is basically the fundamental assumption that science relies on), the idea of causality, and even the fork itself...
__________________
In the dog days, people look to Sirius.

Howard 99: What Came Before Howard 100!
Previous Track: The home of even-later classic rock
'90s Download: All the hits of the '90s
leviramsey is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 12:20 PM   #156
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviramsey
The question transcends human understanding and does come down to a matter of first principles.
I don't see why it should be seen that way.

Perhaps the statement "there is no god" can be seen that way---how can that be proven? But the statement "there is a god" can theoretically be proven---the god could step up and offer some undeniable proof (though I can't imagine what proof that could be---if a being could do magic or read thoughts that doesn't necessitate that it created the world).

OK, maybe it can't be proven...hmmm...
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 02:45 PM   #157
RoadClosed
Sirius Star
 
RoadClosed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Posts: 5,758
RoadClosed will become famous soon enoughRoadClosed will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
rationally supportable justification for either position
I am not attacking you but that is just pure philisophical nonsense by todays standards. There IS indeed rational and supportable justification for the big bang AND natural selection. Is their absolute proof, no.
__________________
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


God does not believe in Athiests. Therefore they do not exist.
RoadClosed is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 03:04 PM   #158
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
There IS indeed rational and supportable justification for the big bang AND natural selection.
Sure, but neither has to do with whether or not there is a god...
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 11-03-2005, 07:26 PM   #159
iloveit
Channel Surfer
 
Join Date: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 56
iloveit is on a distinguished road
Default

If God does exist he is doing a lousy job of running the place. Give anyone I know the powers God is suppose to have and they would definately do a better job!

One thing for sure, prayer is worthless except for making people feel better.
iloveit is offline  
 
 
Old 11-04-2005, 10:20 AM   #160
RoadClosed
Sirius Star
 
RoadClosed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Posts: 5,758
RoadClosed will become famous soon enoughRoadClosed will become famous soon enough
Default

Give these god power to Bush, he'll make it right.

Since that is satire I should be able to get away with it in a non political thread.
__________________
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


God does not believe in Athiests. Therefore they do not exist.
RoadClosed is offline  
 
 
Old 11-04-2005, 11:03 AM   #161
leviramsey
Sirius Star
 
leviramsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 01, 2004
Location: Springfield, MA
Posts: 1,186
leviramsey is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
I am not attacking you but that is just pure philisophical nonsense by todays standards. There IS indeed rational and supportable justification for the big bang AND natural selection. Is their absolute proof, no.
There's no rational evidence for the big bang without making a (possibly significant) leap of faith or two; indeed all science (meaning the scientific method itself) rests on at least one leap of faith: that of induction.

There's no reason the future has to be in any way like the past (though it may well be that human beings are sort of instinctively wired to behave on this ground; indeed, without induction, there's no real reason to eat).
__________________
In the dog days, people look to Sirius.

Howard 99: What Came Before Howard 100!
Previous Track: The home of even-later classic rock
'90s Download: All the hits of the '90s
leviramsey is offline  
 
 
Old 11-04-2005, 03:02 PM   #162
RoadClosed
Sirius Star
 
RoadClosed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow
Posts: 5,758
RoadClosed will become famous soon enoughRoadClosed will become famous soon enough
Default

I disagree about what constitutes rational evidence through advanced science, but that's cool.
__________________
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.


God does not believe in Athiests. Therefore they do not exist.
RoadClosed is offline  
 
 
Old 11-05-2005, 12:01 PM   #163
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by leviramsey
The question transcends human understanding and does come down to a matter of first principles.
I don't see why it should be seen that way.

Perhaps the statement "there is no god" can be seen that way---how can that be proven? But the statement "there is a god" can theoretically be proven---the god could step up and offer some undeniable proof (though I can't imagine what proof that could be---if a being could do magic or read thoughts that doesn't necessitate that it created the world).

OK, maybe it can't be proven...hmmm...
sure it could. first, it could do something that is not possible in this world. we usually refer to "magic" as something that "appears" to be impossible, but we all know it is just a trick. real magic is different.

it could also place in your mind what the universe is really like - something beyond what you could conjure to begin with. it could give you the experience of what "heaven" is actually like, or even take you there, even if it is not a "place" like we think of a place. the definition of god is the entity that can do anything, so it could prove itself to us, if it wanted to do so.

btw, amnesia - did you notice that i started using "it" for god. did i win some brownie points in your book ?
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 11-05-2005, 12:09 PM   #164
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the definition of god is the entity that can do anything, so it could prove itself to us, if it wanted to do so.
I'm not sure that's the popular definition of a god. But no entity can do anything. Remember the old question "can God make a rock so heavy that even he can't lift it?" This shows that logically it's impossible for any entity to do anything. Can a god make a triangle with four corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
btw, amnesia - did you notice that i started using "it" for god. did i win some brownie points in your book ?
Very good! Now all you need to do is to start saying "a god" instead of "god"!
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 11-05-2005, 12:18 PM   #165
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the definition of god is the entity that can do anything, so it could prove itself to us, if it wanted to do so.
I'm not sure that's the popular definition of a god. But no entity can do anything. Remember the old question "can God make a rock so heavy that even he can't lift it?" This shows that logically it's impossible for any entity to do anything. Can a god make a triangle with four corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
btw, amnesia - did you notice that i started using "it" for god. did i win some brownie points in your book ?
Very good! Now all you need to do is to start saying "a god" instead of "god"!
no, that is just a play on words. by definition, god can do anything. all the ideas that i presented are "do-able", in the sense that you are not attempting to trying to make 2 opposites both true.

what is your explanation of difference between "god" and "a god" ?
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
 

Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >


Digitalradiocentral.com




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.39 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All Content Copyright SIRIUS Backstage. All Rights Reserved. SIRIUS and registered trademarks are the property of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc. The opinions posted on SIRIUS Backstage website and forums are those of the individual posters and/or this website and are not necessarily the opinions or positions of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc.