Digital Radio Central - Sponsored by TSS Radio
  DRC Home Page DRC Forums Contact Us  
 
SIRIUS Backstage Forum
 
 
 
  Sirius Satellite Radio XM Satellite Radio iTunes/iPod Slacker Pandora  
 
 
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >
Visit Digital Radio Central

Notices

The Doghouse Here is where people are talking everything not SIRIUS related. So be cool, be smart and have something to say!

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
 
Old 12-25-2005, 12:27 PM   #226
linedrivehit
Mixologist
 
linedrivehit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 27, 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 472
linedrivehit is on a distinguished road
Default

MERRY CHRISTMAS AMNESIA, NYJAZZ AND EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!

__________________
linedrivehit is offline  
 
 
Old 12-25-2005, 01:16 PM   #227
NYJazz
Mixologist
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 302
NYJazz is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to NYJazz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by linedrivehit
MERRY CHRISTMAS AMNESIA, NYJAZZ AND EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!

have a happy holiday, no matter what you believe.


~snicklefritz
__________________
Lifetime Sirius Subscription.
Who me?
NYJazz is offline  
 
 
Old 12-25-2005, 07:54 PM   #228
linedrivehit
Mixologist
 
linedrivehit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 27, 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 472
linedrivehit is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
---if someone claimed that he had a device that could instantly transport a person from one place to another, I'd want some proof. Wouldn't you?

If---like me---you would not accept someone's word for these things without adequate proof, then why don't you apply the same test to your belief in so-called miracles?
If Person A claimed he had seen you transport someone from one place to another, I'd probably be skeptical. BUT...if Person B came up and threatened to kill Person A unless he racanted his story....and Person A refused to recant and just stated it more emphatically, until Person A had his head cut off - I would think either he saw it or was crazy. BUT...if not only Person A says they saw it, but Person D and E and F, and thousands more said they saw it, and they were ALL willing to die before they would recant it, you might want to sit up and take notice.

I know that some people are willing to die for their beliefs, because they think they are right. But these people know whether they actually saw Jesus alive again, and if they are dying for saying it and lying about it, then they are dying for what they know is a lie. People may die for beliefs, but they dont usually die for something they know is a lie. Shouldnt the actions of thousands willing to die saying they saw Jesus alive again make you at least wonder?
__________________
linedrivehit is offline  
 
 
Old 12-25-2005, 08:03 PM   #229
4BAMA
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 514
4BAMA is on a distinguished road
Default

Or aliens. I think it's likely that we're not alone in this universe. So what's more likely, Jesus was an alien or Jesus was a god? Since I think aliens exist and gods don't, the choice is clear.


merry chistmas to everyone of my sirius friends. cool buzz here. i can not prove that jesus was here. but i have faith in god that everything in regards to jesus was true. jesus performed many miracles in front of many witnesses. the leaders at the time of jesus didn't believe

amnesia. maybe the buzz is confusing me. you believe aliens exist but you are unsure about god. going by this discussion if aliens exist who created aliens?
4BAMA is offline  
 
 
Old 12-25-2005, 09:05 PM   #230
AmuN
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Jul 11, 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 935
AmuN is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

but who created god? if god had to create aliens or humans or animals for that matter, then something must have created god. With your argument things MUST be created by something so god must have been created by something higher up.
__________________
AmuN is offline  
 
 
Old 12-26-2005, 02:47 AM   #231
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

hi amun,

that is where your logic is no longer valid.

i think somewhere in this thread i stated some very firm logic as to why this universe was created by something outside of this universe. it was based both on the nature of time and how it was created, and the cause-effect nature of our universe.

all of this was based on knowledge that we have of this universe, to predict something about this universe.

there is no "informed decision" about things that are not part of this universe. they are not necessarily subject to any of the laws of nature of this universe.

so "who created god" is not necessarily a problem outside of this universe. has god always existed ? the very question implies time to something that may have no time. granted, we cant think of life without space, time, or matter - cuz that is the universe from which we came. that which is outside, if there is something (which i do believe there is in whatever way my limited brain can talk about it), may or may not have space, matter or time. our brains can only fathom things about our own black box. we have no way of opening the lid and peering out of our black box (i.e. our universe).

if there is a heaven of some kind, and i am lucky enough to "get there", i hope among the many "happy" things i may find - after seeing all my loved ones, i hope to understand the things that are "non-understandable to me today", because of the limitations of my brain.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 12-29-2005, 05:47 PM   #232
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by linedrivehit
What makes you so sure that there is no God that you are an athiest instead of an agnostic?
Here's an example:
  • What if I told you that I run a mile every day? You'd probably believe me. (believer)
  • What if I said that I had run in over 50 marathons last year? You'd probably be a little skeptical, but you'd be willing to accept that it was possible. (agnostic)
  • What if I told you that I walked on water? You'd want to see some proof. (atheist)
Would you have an open mind or would you simply not believe me? The more outrageous the claim, the more skeptical you should be and the more proof you should require before accepting it. When presented with a claim that is outside known rational thought, the logical thing to do is to reject it outright.
hi amnesia,

the concept of god is not outside known rational thought, though. einstein and planck both believed in god, as well as many other famous scientists.

remember, the belief is about something outside of this universe having said types of powers or abilities. that does not break the laws of our universe. so it does not fall into the same box as our rational thoughts about possibilities within our own universe, that is subject to its natural laws.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 12-29-2005, 06:21 PM   #233
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the concept of god is not outside known rational thought, though. einstein and planck both believed in god, as well as many other famous scientists.
That doesn't mean it's rational or logical.

Faith is by definition "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence".
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 12-29-2005, 06:39 PM   #234
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

i think you are mixing up some concepts, here.

the concept of god is not the same thing as the belief in god. you for example have the concept of god, but not the belief in god.

as i have already explained above, the belief in god is not irrational at all, since we have no information about what if anything exists outside of our universe.

i can agree somewhat with your definition of faith.

however, my proof of "something outside this universe" being responsible for this universe was totally based on material evidence and logical deduction - which is as far as we will ever be able to go to actually prove that god exists, while we are in this universe.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 12-29-2005, 07:46 PM   #235
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the concept of god is not the same thing as the belief in god. you for example have the concept of god, but not the belief in god.
Yes, the concept of a god is not outside rational thought.

However, in my example that I quoted, I am talking in particular about properties attributed to gods, not the idea of gods. In particular, I reference the ability to do magic (eg in order to walk on water or magically come back to life). That ability is outside rational thought and therefore if someone claims to have that ability, your starting position should be non-belief. Only if and when the ability is demonstrated to your utmost satisfaction (and demonstrated so that no mundane explanation is possible), should you start to consider that it might be for real.
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 12-30-2005, 12:18 AM   #236
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

well basically i agree with your general philosophy.

but not with respect to god. if we define god as a supernatural being, then the fact that he can walk on water is not necessarily out of the ordinary. by definition, he is not of this world, nor is he subject to the laws of this world.

so if we assume that god exists, then none of these other attributes are in the least bit irrational.

now if we were debating a person of this world being able to walk on water, then absolutely - show me the scars on his hand.

so basically it still comes down to the question - does god exist ? i know that this can neither be proven nor disproven. but i do believe it can be shown that something outside of this universe exists (at least in our ability to understand existence). that to me is significant in and of itself. whether it is god or not - we all have certain BELIEFS on that one, for sure.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 12-30-2005, 08:48 AM   #237
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
if we define god as a supernatural being, then the fact that he can walk on water is not necessarily out of the ordinary. by definition, he is not of this world, nor is he subject to the laws of this world.
OK, let's take my David Koresh example. Suppose that his followers claimed that he came back from the dead and performed other miracles. They said that he is the son of a god---in fact, a god himself. Does the very fact that they call him divine mean that his supposed actions no longer need verification before you believe that they occurred? Of course not.

As I mentioned in my earlier messages, the fact that his supposed actions are very far removed from logic means that they need more verification, not less. It doesn't matter if the actions are supposedly due to godhood, elf blood, a magic ring or whatever.
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
Old 12-31-2005, 01:42 AM   #238
gymeejet
Sirius Star
 
Join Date: May 13, 2004
Posts: 5,491
gymeejet will become famous soon enough
Default

absolutely.

i was never attempting to "prove" that jesus is god.

i am simply saying that to believe these things about a god is not irrational, because by very definition of god being a supernatural being, said god is not subject to "our everyday realities".

none of us really "know" whether jesus rose into heaven or not.

believers have been willing to accept this on faith. i certainly understand why there are others who do not. quite frankly, i am sure i would also be an agnostic if i had not been raised christian. i would want that same level of proof that you do.
gymeejet is offline  
 
 
Old 01-01-2006, 06:58 PM   #239
4BAMA
Rocket Scientist
 
Join Date: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 514
4BAMA is on a distinguished road
Default

cool buzz here and i'm glad to be alive in 2006 A. D.

my question of the moment. If there was no jesus christ and he didn't perform miracles or sacrifice himself 4 all of us then why is this year recognized as being the year 2006 A. D. ?

My answer is this is the 2006 year since the birth of jesus christ. A. D. stands for Anno Domini which is latin for the year of the Lord and time before jesus is B. C. which means before the birth of jesus christ

everyone have a cool week. i'm off to party in san diego for a week
4BAMA is offline  
 
 
Old 01-01-2006, 07:10 PM   #240
Amnesia
Sirius Star
 
Amnesia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 2,035
Amnesia is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BAMA
If there was no jesus christ and he didn't perform miracles or sacrifice himself 4 all of us then why is this year recognized as being the year 2006 A. D. ?
I don't understand your question.

It's called AD because the Christian church was the driving force in Europe for many, many years. That doesn't make their beliefs the truth.
__________________
Amnesia is offline  
 
 
 

Go Back   SIRIUS Backstage Forum > >


Digitalradiocentral.com




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.39 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
All Content Copyright SIRIUS Backstage. All Rights Reserved. SIRIUS and registered trademarks are the property of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc. The opinions posted on SIRIUS Backstage website and forums are those of the individual posters and/or this website and are not necessarily the opinions or positions of SIRIUS Satellite Radio, Inc.