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Old 01-08-2006, 12:40 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by NYJazz
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Originally Posted by gymeejet

people who say that god does not exist do not realize that they are suffering from the same sort of brainwashing as the people they make fun of - those that emphatically say that god does exist.
this may be the most rediculous statement a theist can make.
Atheists are not brainwashed, gym. they simply have no reason or evidence to believe in a myth. that's like saying you're brainwashed for not believing in Zeus. Why don't you believe in Zeus?? He's a god. What, you don't believe in God?? You must be brainwashed.
okay, here is your first post that at least tries to make sense. but once again, you have misstated.

personally, i do not like the terms atheist and theist, only because they cause confusion, and in my opinion their pure definition does not exist amongst people who are thinking rationally about the topic of the existence of god.

the term "belief" is also not that good, in that it takes on too many different meanings.

but to answer your above post, "not believing in something until proof is shown" is once again entirely different from saying that said something does not exist.
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:42 AM   #272
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it is not likely that any of us will ever know the answer to that question while we are here in this universe.
because proving the existence of something which is non-existent CAN'T BE DONE.

once again, you are positing as fact, for which you have no evidence to support said posit.
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:48 AM   #273
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and none of us have even a smidgeon of knowledge about what may or may not be outside of this universe.
Then why on earth would you believe in a myth???? A fable??

oh, right..the "not being able to admit" it thing.
i have already stated the answer to your question - i have admitted that my christian upbringing played a big part in my belief.

while i cant prove the existence of god, i fall on the side of believing that god does exist, instead of not existing.

whether we believe or not, has a lot to do with our overall experiences. besides my family, have there been other reasons that may have caused my to still believe ? i dont know, for sure. it is kinda hard to completely sever that experience, once you have experienced it.
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:51 AM   #274
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we dont believe in flying reindeer, because we have lots of knowledge about this universe, so we can make an informed decision.
We have lots of knowledge? Then why don't you use some of it and realize that without any evidence for a supreme mythical being, it's ludicrous to believe in one?
once again, we do not have any knowledge about what is outside this universe. so it is neither ludicrous to believe that god exists, nor is it ludicrous to believe that god does not exist.

but to state as fact that god exists or that god does not exist - that is what is ludicrous; because it is a conclusion based on no information whatsoever.
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Old 01-08-2006, 12:55 AM   #275
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how does one make an INFORMED decision about something of which we have NO INFORMATION ?
Atheists do make an INFORMED decision...no evidence (simply no proof that a god exists) is enough information to NOT BELIEVE in something that simply does not exist.
However, it is the theist who bases his faith on NO INFORMATION (no proof), not atheists.
you apparently do not understand the definition of INFORMATION.

if you reread your above quote, you will find how silly it is. neither the theist or atheist has any information. yet somehow the theist bases his faith on no information, yet the atheist makes an informed choice. i mean i think we all needed a good laugh. so thanks for supplying us with one.
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:07 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Amnesia
NYJazz had some good points, but I though I'd add a little to this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
we dont believe in flying reindeer, because we have lots of knowledge about this universe, so we can make an informed decision.
Exactly! Exactly! It's exactly that same knowledge that says that ghosts don't exist or that Moses never parted the Red Sea or that Jesus didn't come back from the dead: We have knowledge of how the world works and these types of magic or supernatural events don't fit with our knowledge.

Again, you're not "agnostic" towards the idea of a flying reindeer, right? You're atheistic. You don't believe in it. Why? Because it goes against knowledge you spoke of. The same thing applies to the other magical or supernatural stories.
hi amnesia,

well after replying to all of nyjazz's posts, it is nice to finally get to one that attempts to make sense.

i have been trying to get one point thru to you, but it does not seem to be sinking in. so i will try once again.

i dont believe in flying reindeer for 2 reasons. 1) i already know that the story of santa claus was specifically made up for little children. and 2) it does go against that said knowledge.

but all knowledge that i have is not applicable to outside this universe. i have no way to make an informed decision about anything outside this universe, including the existence of god.

and i have never stated that you should believe in god.

all i have said is that you can not rationally make the statement that god does not exist, any more than i can rationally make the statement that god does exist.

i have openly stated that there is some doubt in my mind - because i am rational.

are you finally willing to state that there is some doubt in your mind, because you are also rational ? or do you still choose to state for a fact about something of which you have absolutely zero information about ?
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:26 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
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Originally Posted by NYJazz
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flying reindeer, etc. are all things of this world. i wont believe them either, without seeing them, since all my past experience dictates to me that they dont exist.
and what past experience do you have that proves god exists?


nyjazz,
i found your whole post pretty poorly stated. you apparently dont read too well, either. i never said i had any past experience that god exists. in fact, quite the contrary, if you would take the time to read and comprehend what i said.

i have already stated a dozen times that there is no proof that god exists or does not exist.
I find your reasons to believe in god pretty poorly justified.

you keep admitting there is no proof, yet you adamantly insist there is a god. pure genious.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:27 AM   #278
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well that shows me that you make judgments about people when you havent the slightest bit of information with which to make said judgment.
sort of like the way you believe in a diety without any reason to.

you're so silly, you're making atheism seem like a science.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:27 AM   #279
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i have already stated that i probably would be agnostic if i had not been raised christian.
no, you're just afraid to face the truth. there there is no evidence, but you're just to embarassed to admit your whole life has been led down a false path, and that all your friends, family and loved ones are wrong.
where do you dream this stuff up ? was my argument so good that it made you interject your own falsehoods about me ?

look at my quote, and then read your reply to it. how in the world is that a reply to the above statement of mine ? i guess you just had nothing good to reply, so you went way off course.

i am afraid to admit the truth ? i have already stated that there is no evidence that conclusively says that god exists.

and not all my friends are believers, either.
methinks he doth protest too much.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:32 AM   #280
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personally, i do not like the terms atheist and theist,
personally, you don't like these terms because atheism is completely rational, and theism is completely irrational. It is understandable how you wouldn't "like" these terms, since you're whole entire argument is based on fables. It is very simple, theist- one who believes in fables; Atheist- one who doesn't. Is that so hard to comprehend...maybe for you it is.

Quote:
only because they cause confusion,
no confusion, see above definition for clarity.

Quote:
and in my opinion their pure definition does not exist amongst people who are thinking rationally about the topic of the existence of god.
there is no rationality for the existence of god...you lose either way.

Quote:
the term "belief" is also not that good, in that it takes on too many different meanings.
how many ways are there to either "believe" or "not believe?" Why is that concept so difficult for you to grasp? Because you're putting all your time and effort into believing myths and legends....stupid is as stupid does.

Quote:
but to answer your above post, "not believing in something until proof is shown" is once again entirely different from saying that said something does not exist.
no it isn't.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:33 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by gymeejet
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it is not likely that any of us will ever know the answer to that question while we are here in this universe.
because proving the existence of something which is non-existent CAN'T BE DONE.

once again, you are positing as fact, for which you have no evidence to support said posit.
Of course I don't have evidence of the existence of god. neither do you and I defy you to produce any.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:38 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by gymeejet
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Originally Posted by NYJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet


and none of us have even a smidgeon of knowledge about what may or may not be outside of this universe.
Then why on earth would you believe in a myth???? A fable??

oh, right..the "not being able to admit" it thing.
i have already stated the answer to your question - i have admitted that my christian upbringing played a big part in my belief.

while i cant prove the existence of god, i fall on the side of believing that god does exist, instead of not existing.
stupid is as stupid does.


Quote:
whether we believe or not, has a lot to do with our overall experiences.
translation: "I belive because my parents made me believe"

It has to do with wanting to believe in myths or not wanting to believe. Here it is folks, another theist not willing to take responsiblity for believing in the bullshit he has been fed his entire life.

Quote:
besides my family, have there been other reasons that may have caused my to still believe ?
of course not!!!!! there is absolutely no reason FOR you to believe except the crock of shit your mother force fed you since the day you were born...that's what religion is. A forcefeeding of bullshit. You only become a rational thinker when you decide to give up the "brainwashing" you've ingested your entire life.
I thought you were smarter than that....guess not.
Quote:
i dont know, for sure. it is kinda hard to completely sever that experience, once you have experienced it.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:41 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
we dont believe in flying reindeer, because we have lots of knowledge about this universe, so we can make an informed decision.
We have lots of knowledge? Then why don't you use some of it and realize that without any evidence for a supreme mythical being, it's ludicrous to believe in one?
once again, we do not have any knowledge about what is outside this universe. so it is neither ludicrous to believe that god exists, nor is it ludicrous to believe that god does not exist.

but to state as fact that god exists or that god does not exist - that is what is ludicrous; because it is a conclusion based on no information whatsoever.
of course it is!!! Man, I didn't realize a theist could be this dumb!
Statement: "We have no reason to believe god exists because we have no proof." simple, ain't it??

we don't say the inverse is true: "We have no reason to believe god exists, so we believe in god." How fucking dumb is that??

You're arguing for agnosticism without saying your agnostic.
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Old 01-08-2006, 07:42 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
how does one make an INFORMED decision about something of which we have NO INFORMATION ?
Atheists do make an INFORMED decision...no evidence (simply no proof that a god exists) is enough information to NOT BELIEVE in something that simply does not exist.
However, it is the theist who bases his faith on NO INFORMATION (no proof), not atheists.
you apparently do not understand the definition of INFORMATION.

if you reread your above quote, you will find how silly it is. neither the theist or atheist has any information. yet somehow the theist bases his faith on no information, yet the atheist makes an informed choice. i mean i think we all needed a good laugh. so thanks for supplying us with one.
atheism simply makes a conclusion based on the lack of evidence. if that is funny to you, ok. What's funny to me is your head buried deeply in the sand, ostrich man.
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Old 01-08-2006, 09:01 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYJazz
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If lskjd you sddfja are lkdlk reading lkdlkjj[a this 'lds;jf[sl then aslkdjflks you shdpffpa have ;slkjdfklajs an jdfsjasdjf;k open s;dkadf mind!
I take it you're a theist.
You just neen to read in between the lines sometimes...all is not what it appears!
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