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Old 01-30-2006, 11:36 AM   #331
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hi amnesia,

i never said i knew that. i dont know for sure that god and heaven actually exist. and i have no problem at all with those who have decided for themselves not to believe in them.
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:56 AM   #332
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My understanding is that you believe that some extra-universe intelligence created this universe. Right?

Do you believe that this intelligence intended for humans (and possibly other extra-terrestrial sentient species) to be created, or was that an unforseen side-effect?

Do you believe that this intelligence notices/cares about humans? Wants humans to pray to it? Listens to prayers and magically changes the world accordingly?

And finally, somehow magically transfers the consciousness of dying humans to some other plane of existence (perhaps just the dying humans that professed belief in it)? (Bypassing the [known] laws of this universe in the process...)
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:19 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
explaining how one might "feel" is completely different from talking about what heaven is like.
classic theist double speak.

the original post said no one can "conjure" what heaven is like, then a backpedal explaining how "one might feel" in heaven..

it is not "completely different" it's absolute double talk trying to explain something imaginary which quite simply has no empirical evidence of being in existence.

your explanation of "how god created the universe" and "the world can not be random" coupled with your double talk and back peddling assures me (and should assure everyone else as well) that you have NO idea what you're talking about. you couldn't possibly KNOW what you're talking about for what you're actually trying to describe DOES NOT EXIST.

No matter how many times you try to explain your inherently contradictory stance, it will never wash.

there is no heaven, you certainly can't prove there's a heaven
yet YOU know how one would FEEL in heaven???

a more childish nonsensical explanation couldn't be conceived.



Quote:
what i was explaining to amnesia is that "good" was not necessarily how we define it here on earth.
and you would know........how?

Quote:
rather that our spirits are supposed to be happy, because they will be in the environment that makes them happy, whatever that environment will be.
our spirits??? what planet are you from??
and where exactly are these spirits, oh wise one?

Quote:

i am saying that it is doubtful that any of us, given our limited capabilities, would really be able to understand what heaven actually is. but whatever it is, it will make us happy.
THERE YOU GO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
"heaven will make us happy"???????????
yet, NO ONE CAN "CONJURE" what heaven is like-------except you???????

why do you insist on perpetrating this fraud??? are you some kind of troll?????

Quote:


lets say that eating a chocolate bar makes you happy. so does eating an ice cream cone. the bar and cone are different, yet both things make you happy.

now you ask me about the taste of popcorn. i tell you that there is no way to describe a taste. it is something that you need to experience yourself. however, it makes most people feel happy.
great analogies....

Quote:
so one is not describing heaven when one says that heaven will make you happy.
uh.....yes one is. the one is you. you're so insightful, you can know what all others can't know??
Quote:
rather one is describing one's feelings when they are in heaven, making no description of what heaven is like.
and YOU'RE supposed to know what "one's" feelings are like in an imaginary place floating somewhere "up above?"

you really need some medicine, really.
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:24 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
My understanding is that you believe that some extra-universe intelligence created this universe. Right?

Do you believe that this intelligence intended for humans (and possibly other extra-terrestrial sentient species) to be created, or was that an unforseen side-effect?

Do you believe that this intelligence notices/cares about humans? Wants humans to pray to it? Listens to prayers and magically changes the world accordingly?

And finally, somehow magically transfers the consciousness of dying humans to some other plane of existence (perhaps just the dying humans that professed belief in it)? (Bypassing the [known] laws of this universe in the process...)
rediculous, ain't it?? hahhaha.

silly, not to mention anyone trying to explain this imaginary nonsensical non-existent "heaven" completely contradicts themselves at every turn.

it would be like trying to explain the origin of The Snicklefritz.

a snicklefritz does not exist, yet I can tell you he feels fine.

see!! anyone can be an idiot if he has faith!!!!!!
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:26 PM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
My understanding is that you believe that some extra-universe intelligence created this universe. Right?
yes, that is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Do you believe that this intelligence intended for humans (and possibly other extra-terrestrial sentient species) to be created, or was that an unforseen side-effect?
intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Do you believe that this intelligence notices/cares about humans? Wants humans to pray to it? Listens to prayers and magically changes the world accordingly?
yes. i dont know. no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
And finally, somehow magically transfers the consciousness of dying humans to some other plane of existence (perhaps just the dying humans that professed belief in it)? (Bypassing the [known] laws of this universe in the process...)
yes, i think we experience this other existence in some way. i would not want to judge on who experiences this or not.
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:32 PM   #336
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sorry ny,

my explanation to you was rock-solid in why my statements were and are not contradictory, no matter how long and arrogant of a response you want to give.

it is obvious to me that you have a real problem still with the concept of god. i do not come on strong or pushy, like many non-believers say that believers do.

you, on the other hand, come on as nothing but arrogant, obstinate, and overbearing in your posts. in this case, it is the non-believer trying to push his beliefs on the believer.

perhaps you are not the strong non-believer that you say you are ? i have a very good grasp of the human equation. those people who are truly self-confident, never have the need to go around showing it.
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:36 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
sorry ny,

my explanation to you was rock-solid in why my statements were and are not contradictory, no matter how long and arrogant of a response you want to give.

it is obvious to me that you have a real problem still with the concept of god. i do not come on strong or pushy, like many non-believers say that believers do.

you, on the other hand, come on as nothing but arrogant, obstinate, and overbearing in your posts. in this case, it is the non-believer trying to push his beliefs on the believer.

perhaps you are not the strong non-believer that you say you are ? i have a very good grasp of the human equation. those people who are truly self-confident, never have the need to go around showing it.
nice. when your argument falters and you have nothing left to defend your already weak position...having nowhere else to turn, attack the psychology of the person attacking your position.

your position (and your argument, quite frankly) is hardly rock solid, I've bashed whatever solid material was in your argument to tiny bits and you still have nothing to go on EXCEPT and you will not admit this, "your own faith" which holds ZERO water and truth. it is your own opinion and means absolutely nothing to the debate of the existence of god/heaven.

your argument is inherently contradticory and childish, I've shown that repeatedly.
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:46 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
in this case, it is the non-believer trying to push his beliefs on the believer.
wrong again!!

I have no belief in heaven. I'm refuting the rediculousness of a narrow minded theist attempting to convince people that he's the only one on the planet who can explain what it "feels" like to be in heaven!!

Quote:
perhaps you are not the strong non-believer that you say you are ?
perhaps there is nothing to believe in, perhaps your faulty logic is guiding your childish belief in the existence of a "superior" place where we eat chocolate and popcorn and "feel" happy all the time!!

perhaps you need to take more of the medication previously prescribed by the team of psychiatrists who prematurely discharged you from a padded room.

Quote:
i have a very good grasp of the human equation.
yes, as you do with "how it feels" in heaven.
what you do have a "good grasp" of is a vivid imagination.

Quote:
those people who are truly self-confident, never have the need to go around showing it.
and those people who are truly in the know, do not go around spewing contradictory bullshit about imaginary places.
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:52 PM   #339
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sorry, i gave you a rock solid argument about why my statements about heaven were not contradictory. instead of being willing to admit that you were wrong, you went on an emotional tirade.

since god and heaven can not be proven or disproven, our opinions about them are what this discussion is about.

if you were of the hope or thought that this thread's purpose was to actually prove or disprove said existence, then might i suggest you leave - because that desire can not be achieved.

if on the other hand, you want to talk about it without being arrogant, overbearing, and obstinate - then i welcome you aboard.

amnesia is not a believer. you dont see me chastise him, do you ? ever since you have joined in this thread, you have shown that same attitude that is stereotypical for lawyers and new-yorkers. why not just try to be an average joe ?
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:01 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
why not just try to be an average joe ?
this sums up your whole life, don't it?

your ideas are average, you go along with the status quo on every turn, and you believe you will be happier and somehow fullfilled by going to heaven created by a loving god.

what time are you meeting the easter bunny for lunch??
did santa bring you a shit load of toys for XMAS this year, wittle boy?
Don't step on that invisible diety in the corner of your rubber cell, you may go to hell!!!!!!!!

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Old 01-30-2006, 01:06 PM   #341
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you can sure jump to some wild conclusions.

the people on this site are only internet acquaintances. however, i doubt if any of them even remotely think of me as someone who goes along with the status quo. so i guess that shows me how little you understand about me.

as an average joe, one does not behave in an overbearing fashion.

again, please leave. you offer no contributions to this thread. your only purpose seems to be to want to be argumentative with me. i have no desire to debate with you. since unlike amnesia, you offer me nothing interesting to debate about. i gave you a chance aways back, and you used it to become even twice as overbearing as usual.
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:40 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
Quote:
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And finally, somehow magically transfers the consciousness of dying humans to some other plane of existence?
yes, i think we experience this other existence in some way.
This seems inconsistent with your other beliefs.

Why would such an intelligence do such a thing upon a human's death?

And, more to the point---how?!? It's one thing to state that the nature of this creator is "unknowable" because it existed before the universe, but it's another thing entirely to claim that it continues to violate the laws of this universe by continuing a non-coporeal existence for deseased people.

As I mentioned before, I think the whole idea of an afterlife is a pleasant fantasy dreamed up by power-hungry priests: Give us money and believe in our god and no matter how bad your life is on earth, you will have eternal paradise after you die! Don't give us your money or believe in our god and eternal hellfire awaits! How do I know? Just take my word for it!

I'm somewhat surprised to see you so accepting of this...
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #343
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I'm somewhat surprised to see you so accepting of this...
I'm not. anyone who would blindly believe that god and heaven exist would buy the Brooklyn Bridge if you sold it to them well enough.

Hey.....gym......I got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, you interested?

cheap, real cheap. I also got some swampland in New Orleans if you're interested!!
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Old 01-30-2006, 05:00 PM   #344
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Given the history of mankind and it's scientific progress through time... I think religion is in our DNA.
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Old 01-30-2006, 05:02 PM   #345
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Given the history of mankind and it's scientific progress through time... I think religion is in our DNA.
so you believe in scientific progress and heaven.

the dichotomy never ends.
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