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Old 02-03-2006, 10:46 AM   #406
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We have the ability to construct god and then defend him and to construct theories we can't prove. No we are not like insects.
finally.
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:54 AM   #407
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hi rc,

please join in, if you want.

i believe we would have less chance of understanding than an amoeba - since i believe there are other dimensions. sorta going back to the flatlanders understanding the concept of volume. we cant begin to think about concepts without attaching space, matter and time to them. now obviously i dont know what is outside of our universe - it is just my suspicion that our ability to understand it is comparable to the amoeba's ability to understand the 3-dimensional world that we live in.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:03 AM   #408
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We have already contructed models of hyper dimentional objects. Not to mention we understand they are there. We predict them so in essence we are not like the flatlanders. But I won't argue there could be "objects" in the universe we could never fully detect. Or perhaps we would invent a way. Like x-rays and microwaves and radio waves. We knew these things existed before we could prove it. Thats all I am saying, an insect does not have the capacity to comprehend it's existance. And an omeba isn't even consicous in a sense. Currently our brian is severaly underutilized so on an evolutional scale I would bet we could understand the entire knowledge of the universe if god was to come down and say he Bob, here you go bro. It's a flight of fantasy perhaps but genetically i think we have the goods and if not I think the next brain initiated genetic mutation will.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:10 AM   #409
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hi amnesia,

you are right, which is why i previously mentioned what rc just said - we have a god that can do anything, and therefore can not be disproven. and i already said that i know this, and understand a non-believer's position. but it is true that we can not make conclusions about what something or someone outside of this universe can do, with any sort of definitiveness.

so yes, god could allow fortune tellers, and the rest. but as a christian, it is my belief that god has visited us once, in the form of jesus. we have been given "free will", which means that god does not interfere with our lives, and there are no fortune tellers, etc.

we have already had the conversation about prayer, and it is perhaps one thing that i lack a totality of agreement with myself, as to exactly what, if any, effect prayer has.

but most of these examples are a little hard to imagine - like not having gravity affect us, or being able to foresee things, etc. but it is my belief that god could completely eradicate the universe anytime, if god so desired - which of course nothing in this universe could do that. we pretty much know it is still expanding - and if it does contract at some point into nothingness again, that process will take billions and billions and billions of years - not seconds.

but i do understand your frustration with me, in this regards. or i should say frustration with believers. the concept of god, or anything outside of this universe, just cant be "reasoned" about since we have no information with which to reason. so we are stuck - either we believe because of faith, or we choose not to believe. and i certainly understand the position of not believing.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:11 AM   #410
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hi rc,

please join in, if you want.

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Old 02-03-2006, 11:11 AM   #411
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We have the ability to construct god and then defend him and to construct theories we can't prove. No we are not like insects.
finally.
In this reference I wasn't making an argument that god was made up to appease some sociological issue. I mean we have the ability to construct an intangible image of him and love him. We aren't born with it. Our brains are only capable of sub conscious function and constructing dreams of a very extreme basic nature. We learn about god and then construct his presence as each of us see fit. In most cases through the teaching of others. Even among like peers in very different fashion. That is not insectoid. In fact historically some of us have been able to construct entire theories of science and religion unheard of before the time period this person is alive and with no other course than pure thought. Taking not what is known or is handed us but creating it ourselves. Case point perhap Jesus Christ or Muhammad and Eistein or Bose on both ends of the spectrum.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:13 AM   #412
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but i do understand your frustration with me, in this regards. or i should say frustration with believers. the concept of god, or anything outside of this universe, just cant be "reasoned" about since we have no information with which to reason. so we are stuck - either we believe because of faith, or we choose not to believe. and i certainly understand the position of not believing.


it shows some bit of rationality
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:14 AM   #413
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hi rc,

i understand your position - i just think we would all be surprised how much credit we are giving ourselves. lol.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:16 AM   #414
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We have the ability to construct god and then defend him and to construct theories we can't prove. No we are not like insects.
finally.
In this reference I wasn't making an argument that god was made up to appease some sociological issue.
you certanily were.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:19 AM   #415
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hi rc,

i personally dont have any images of god.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:20 AM   #416
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You do realize we are on the brink of several fascinating discoveries. We've talked before in this very thread about the quanta. And even now the human genome is mapped. Not to mention our latest deep space probe is so much faster and sophisticated than ever before, and not by a small degree. I would say its 1000 times more advanced. And we only tap a small percentage of the processing and thought capability of our brains. Call me positiver. So yes I give us a lot of credit considering we can see into time and space and even other galaxies as we study the makeup of objects we cannot see and barely understand, such as singularities. So not I don't buy into the insect analogy.

Even though like an insect if god did exists and pass judgment upon a little rock floating in an almost infinite space, he could wink us out of existance in about a billionth of a second eh?
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:25 AM   #417
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you certanily were.
No actually I wasn't. The historical context of religion among ancient peoples is another issue and perhaps another thread. In many cases it was the desire for knowledge without the basic building blocks of getting to it. I have never had a desire to tear down what some believe. It has no reason.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:29 AM   #418
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we discover fascinating things (about this universe). what i am saying is that i believe the "super-universe" is as much beyond us - as the insect is beyond knowing about this universe.

and that statement is not a put-down of us, but rather a statement about how strange and different the whole ball of wax is. because we know so much, i think we fool ourselves at how far along we actually are. if we knew everything in totality about this universe, i suspect that we would still not have even scratched the surface about that ball of actual entirety.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:32 AM   #419
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The fact the you are contemplating some kind of existence beyond our universe bubble says alot of how we actually could comprehend something beyond our scope. But it is like faith, this super universe could or could not exist. You are contstructing it in your mind. And wondering what it would be like.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:36 AM   #420
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Quote:
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You are contstructing it in your mind. And wondering what it would be like.
bingo!!

it's comeplete FICTION!!
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