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Old 08-11-2006, 11:20 AM   #571
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Interesting question.

Didn't Jesus have a brother? (Or perhaps, half-brother?) I always had the impression that Jesus was believed to be biologically related to Mary, but not the Joseph.

I don't think Mary is viewed as just the surrogate mother---that wouldn't explain the high opinion of her that so many Christians have. In my (admittedly outsider's) view, Mary is much more spoken of than is Joseph---that would align with the idea that Jesus is Mary's biological son (and not Joseph's biological son).

I guess that Christians believe that Joseph was cuckolded by God...
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:32 AM   #572
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I believe that Mary was more than just a surrogate to Jesus. She was really his mother. In addition to his role as the Son of God, he was also human, and that came from Mary. Joseph is viewed as a good man who stood by his wife.

Imagine if Jesus were born today, all the DNA tests he have to go through?

I do break from Catholicism (I still go to Catholic church) in that I believe that Mary didn't remain a virgin after Jesus was born, and I believe that Jesus had brothers and sisters from Mary and Joseph. My priest wouldn't agree with me on that one!
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:59 PM   #573
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Let's not forget that the "Immaculate Conception" was that of Mary, not Jesus. At least in Catholic doctrine. The idea that Mary's parents donated the sperm and egg and God "immaculately" infused a soul without "origional sin" during her conception, thus creating someone worthy of being Jesus' mother....that would lead me to assume the incubator theory is outside of doctrine.

Though for my college roomate, who theroized that Jesus was 1/2 alien, your theroy would have merit...of course, he was drunk most of the time.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:45 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elahrairah
Let's not forget that the "Immaculate Conception" was that of Mary, not Jesus. At least in Catholic doctrine. The idea that Mary's parents donated the sperm and egg and God "immaculately" infused a soul without "origional sin" during her conception, thus creating someone worthy of being Jesus' mother....that would lead me to assume the incubator theory is outside of doctrine.
I'm not buying the "Immaculate Conception" of Mary theory. There is no mention of it in the bible, to my knowlege, and was something added many years later by Catholic hierarchy.
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:30 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Aaron
I'm not buying the "Immaculate Conception" of Mary theory. There is no mention of it in the bible, to my knowledge, and was something added many years later by Catholic hierarchy.
Luke 3:31-35 talks about an angel going to Mary and telling her that she had conceived. Mary questions the angel by say, "How Shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

The angel replies, "The Holy Ghost shall (has not happened yet, I guess) come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Song of God".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
Didn't Jesus have a brother? (Or perhaps, half-brother?) I always had the impression that Jesus was believed to be biologically related to Mary, but not the Joseph.
Here's a verse that names Jesus' mother and brothers.

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Two Gospels list the genealogy of Jesus, Matthew and Luke. Matthew lists from Abraham to Joseph, while Luke lists Mary's genealogy from Joseph back to Adam...
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Old 08-11-2006, 07:12 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semipenguin
Luke 3:31-35 talks about an angel going to Mary and telling her that she had conceived. Mary questions the angel by say, "How Shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

The angel replies, "The Holy Ghost shall (has not happened yet, I guess) come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Song of God".
I probably didn't explain myself too well. I very much believe that Jesus was born to the virgin Mary. The Immaculate Conception I was referring to was that Mary was "preserved by God from the stain of original sin at the time of her own conception... and furthermore lived a life completely free from sin."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_conception
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Old 08-11-2006, 07:22 PM   #577
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I think there are a lot of mis-conceptions (no pun intened... ) about Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Nice read, 7Aaron...
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:43 PM   #578
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hey guys,

interesting posts. as i thought, we were gonna get some different ideas on that. i did an internet search on that topic, and there are tons of articles - i was a bit surprised. but perhaps i should not have been. there were arguments on both sides about it.

when i got old enough to start to consider such, it was never that big of a deal to me - more a curiosity.

if one believes in the concept of god, then god could do whatever he wanted. he did not have to come to earth in human form, at all. but he chose to. he could have simply arrived as a man, or a baby - but according to the nt, he sent us himself in the form of a baby to be born, like other human babies.

now, i am not saying that jesus is god. of that, i doubt we will ever have any definitive proof. it is something that one must accept, if one chooses. but i think continued conversation about all such topics - gives a person a better picture with which to make some sort of informed decision about his spirituality.
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Old 08-12-2006, 01:02 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Aaron
I probably didn't explain myself too well. I very much believe that Jesus was born to the virgin Mary. The Immaculate Conception I was referring to was that Mary was "preserved by God from the stain of original sin at the time of her own conception... and furthermore lived a life completely free from sin."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_conception


Very nice read from Wikipedia. I didn't realize Catholics actually celebrate Mary's birthday....not too many store specials occur for this. Without the special savings on my day to day items, how am I to know something spiritual is about to happen? All hail the art of research and independent rationalization.
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Old 08-12-2006, 01:06 PM   #580
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Old 08-14-2006, 01:40 AM   #581
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i think one of our biggest stumbling blocks regarding the bible is its integrity or accountability.

2000 years from now, if we dont blow ourselves up, civilization will have volumes of info by tons of sources with which to make conclusions about us.

but 2000+ years ago, there were few people transcribing documents. and when the library of alexandria was burned, half of civilization went along with it.

we just have no real way to know who wrote these books, who copied them from generation to generation, and how true they may be.

here is a url regarding when the various books of the bible were written.

http://www.carm.org/bible/biblewhen.htm
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:42 PM   #582
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Question Does God exist?

Interesting bit from a book I've read:

What difference does it, or can it, make? Who cares? Who should care? Indeed, who even should care about anyone else's answer to that particular question? That answer will in no sense begin to define what feelings you will have in any particular situation, nor even more important, what actions you will take on behalf of those feelings. The fact is that you will have, indeed you must have, a belief system that has moral and ethical dimensions, while you may, or may not justify' that belief system, implicitly or explicitly, in terms of a God or gods. I believe that gods exist to the extent that people believe in them. I believe that we created gods, not the other way around. But that doesn't make God any less "real." Indeed, it makes God all the more powerful. So, yes, I believe in, and, maybe, to some extent fear, the God in your head, and all the gods in the heads of believers. They are real, omnipresent, and something approaching omnipotent.
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Old 08-14-2006, 09:09 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc_1981
Interesting bit from a book I've read:

I believe that gods exist to the extent that people believe in them. I believe that we created gods, not the other way around. But that doesn't make God any less "real." Indeed, it makes God all the more powerful. So, yes, I believe in, and, maybe, to some extent fear, the God in your head, and all the gods in the heads of believers. They are real, omnipresent, and something approaching omnipotent.
Your own personal Jesus ... Someone to hear your prayers ...Someone who cares...

Interesting read, but not for me. I believe that God who created me is the one and only God whether one believes in him or not.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:41 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bc_1981
What difference does it, or can it, make? Who cares? Who should care?
Well, there are some religious leaders who appear convinced that their god is the only god and it will reward certain behavior in an afterlife and punish other behavior.

If they are right, then it definitely does make a difference.
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:15 AM   #585
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hi amnesia,

i certainly hope that isnt true. i believe that that is simply humans getting involved, in an attempt to control the masses.

i know the catholic church no longer teaches that "only catholics can get to heaven".
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