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Old 12-06-2006, 09:11 PM   #631
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that's for sure. our scientific knowledge has grown leaps and bounds. a lot of that has to do with the stranglehold the catholic church had on the world - for a 1000 plus years.

up until the times of copernicus, kepler, galileo and newton - most of the scientific stuff was b.c. or just a little past a.d.

the works of archimedes had been written over with biblical texts, because at the time the works no longer seemed noteworthy. no one really understood the significance of it all.

when archimedes works were discovered, scientists were absolutely astounded that someone from that long ago had figured that sort of stuff out. but we actually re-discovered most of it again, without the use of archimedes - 1500 years later. if you look at what a scientist accomplished with the tools that he had to use - i dont think anyone even comes a distant second to archimedes. he was truly so far ahead of his time.

and of course there was the burning of the library in alexandria, the only one place in the world to hold such knowledge. today, that sort of risk is non-existent - but back then it did happen.

we lost so much knowledge that we would have been so much further ahead today, if we had not had to start all over. and there are still some things today that we know occurred, but do not yet fully understand, nor can we duplicate. i think the egyptian mummification process is still not completely understood.

but we continue to make progress. i think if humans could overcome this brainwashing process, and learn to think for themselves with the brain god gave us - we would be so much better off.

i, for one, relish learning new things about how the world operates. i dont think it has anything to do with the existence of god or not. so i surely find no discomfort with what i may want to be true. i think einstein said it best - he wanted to understand the mind of god, the rest were just details. LOL.
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:34 AM   #632
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The final destruction of the library took place during the Muslim conquest. The catholic church has a hold of the western civilization at the time. We tend to think of it as the whole planet. But it but a small part. Even though most progress came from the area. It was also the Catholic church that commission and supported those scientists to find accurate prediction of the solar system. Thankfully they stopped killing them when they told others that the pope was incorrect in the position we hold in the universe. We also assume that without the church we would have made more progress. I don't believe that is 100 percent true. I am not sure the great universities would have survived barbarism without some control. No matter how corrupt.

Don't be so sure Alexandria won't happen again. After the Muslims took over Afghanistan (radical Muslims) they set out to destroy amazing artifacts and accomplishments of ancient man. Those are gone forever. And who's to say a nukeYOUlar device placed at a few point wouldn't eliminate 1000 years worth of research.
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:22 AM   #633
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http://www.mediahistory.umn.edu/inde...lexandria.html

you were correct that it was islam that did the library in. it had been damaged before, but had been gradually replaced.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:19 PM   #634
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:51 PM   #635
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The ONLY way this question is going to be answered is when our number comes up.So in the mean time let's just treat people the way we want to be treated.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:12 PM   #636
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I want my own personal stip show. Treat me the way I want to be treated please.... where are the girls?
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:05 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
I want my own personal stip show. Treat me the way I want to be treated please.... where are the girls?

stip show? Glad you didn't ask for a stump show. eww....
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:51 PM   #638
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horrible typist. I would like my own personal stRip show please.
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Old 12-14-2006, 05:30 PM   #639
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Lol
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Old 12-24-2006, 08:33 PM   #640
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i dont think we can ever answer this question with absolute certainty, but i do believe that we can use the tools that we do have, towards making some better speculations.

in trying to seek the truth, i have attempted to be honest about categorizing things that i know, versus things that i have been taught to be true. i have been given a brain to think with - this is my main tool.

for example - i dont know if god exists. i dont know if heaven exists. these are not things that i can prove, so i have learned to accept that.

1) many people claim to have a personal relationship with god, in whatever form that may be.

there are 2 reasons that i dont believe this.

first, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that our brains would understand something in a higher dimension. and every bit of evidence that shows that our brains can not understand this. heck, our brains can become delusional in this world. often we have problems separating stuff in our dreams from actual events.

second, all these people who claim this, all tell different stories. some are of this belief and some of that belief. if god really was communicating with these people, they would all be hearing the same story. so it seems obvious to me that what these people are actually doing - is saying that they have this relationship, based purely on their religious teachings, and not at all on a real event.

now many believers will go to the extent of saying that god can do anything, therefore god could make our brains understand.

to that, i argue - first, my above argument. if god was really talking to these people, how come they all have different stories.

so the question is not whether god COULD do this. the question is - IS HE DOING THIS ?

again, the overwhelming conclusion, based strictly on evidence is that god is not communicating with us, in the way that many people would like to believe that he is.

of course, i am assuming for arguments sake, that god does exist.

so as i look at the evidence, and arrive at conclusions based upon this evidence, and not based upon what i want things to be like - the answer seems very simple and clear.

people are not perfect. we dont know the future. so we continually change our minds about stuff, based upon our experiences and facts that we come to realize later, as we live.

god has no such problem. god knew what he wanted from his first conception. our brains of today can not fathom such stuff. the very obvious answer is that god never intended to communicate to us - at least at this point of our evolution. what the brain of a human, or a rattlesnake for that matter, might be like in a billion years - that may be beyond our current comprehension. so there was no reason to make our brain capable of understanding it, since there was no communication to be done.

so, if we assume that god has no intention of communicating to us, what can we learn from this, using just our brain and logic ?

first, it seems to me that there is a purpose for us being here. had god wanted to, he could have placed us directly in heaven. or hell, for that matter. LOL. so, if there is a purpose for being here, the obvious next question would be to ask ourselves what this purpose is.

the fact that god has chosen not to communicate with us - leads me to another somewhat obvious or likely conclusion.

if god had chosen to communicate with us, and given us a brain to actually comprehend this, then a lot of our struggle here on earth would not exist. if we actually knew without a shred of doubt that god exists, and that heaven exists - things would be too easy for us. to know without a shadow of a doubt, that all we have to do is live a 100 years here on earth being good, and we have an eternity of bliss - no real test, there.

but, how willing are we to do good here on earth, when we dont know for sure. the angel in one ear tells us to do good. the devil in the other ear tells us to do whatever we want, irregardless of our effect on others - cuz what the heck, we aint gonna be here very long.

those people who treat others as a father would want his children to treat his other children - SHOW that they love god and want to be with god.

the bible teaches us that we can not earn our way to heaven. i disagree with this. i think just the opposite - we must earn our way to heaven. dont confuse "earning your way" to "being worthy".

if we compare ourselves to god, then no one is worthy. but that is not what god created us for. god is not using himself as a benchmark for us, so that we would all fail. if god is a loving father, then he wants us to get to heaven, and therefore gives us the possibility of doing so. if we do as requested, we will get there, because of god's wish for us to get there, not because we are worthy of it. but we did "earn it" in the sense that we had a choice of what we did in our life, knowing that some choices would get us into heaven, while other choices would not.

i wish all of you peace inside, not only during the holiday season, but your whole life long.
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Old 12-25-2006, 01:13 AM   #641
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In short, no, there is no god. God is the creation of man, not the other way around. The concept was created to explain what we could otherwise not understand. We fear what we cannot understand.

Science may never be able to explain where we came from. I highly doubt it'll give us this answer within our lifetimes. It's a concept that's far too advanced for our primitive minds. The fact that we cannot explain where we came from is why the concept of god will continue to exist.

Note. I haven't read through the 40+ pages when these comments were made.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:08 PM   #642
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I hear god likes to play skeeball.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:13 PM   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadClosed
I hear god likes to play skeeball.
No, that's Alanis Morrisette.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:56 PM   #644
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Gym you say in your first reason that there are dimensions that we can't even phathom, then in your second arguement you say that if God was talking to people he would be saying the same thing. I don't buy this arguement because I had it the other day with a friend, who is a muslim. He asked me why we had the Trinity. His point of view was that there is only one God, not three. My response to him was why? If God or Allah is so powerful why do you think he has to follow our logic. He can be one thing and he can be a million things.

So back to your ideas, I think they contradict each other. There are dimensions we can't understand, yet they must all be the same? Can you explain this further please.

One of my basic beliefs in that there is a higher being called God is life. We can through all the chemicals, electricity, and other scientific things into a big melting pot but none of it will ever become life. Something there is missing, and in my opinion it is the Divine. Could I be wrong? Sure, I am only human but you could be just as wrong, we can't understand some higher dimensions yet we try and catorgorize them? If you can't understand something then how do you catorgorize it?
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:07 PM   #645
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hi sondan,

i read and reread and reread your post. i am lost. i dont know what you are asking of me.

if you could try to rephrase just one question, first - and then i will try to give you an answer as to what i meant. because right now, we dont seem to be on the same communication wave length. LOL.
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