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Old 01-16-2007, 09:17 PM   #706
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hi mem,

i know that is the phrase that bugs you. i will get into it, when i give you my complete interpretation. the phrase would bug me as well, if that was all that i had to go on. luckily, it is not.

the problem with people interpreting the bible is that it is not meant to be a literal book, at all times.

jesus spoke in parables, getting ideas across. the sermon was to a large crowd of people.

trying to take that one paragraph, and ignoring what follows it - gives you wrong conclusions. that is often true, when reading science books, as well as listening to speeches.

one must read what follows and what came before to get a more complete understanding of what one is reading.

if you do that with math and science, there are many times where you will also make the wrong conclusion.

remember, this is a speech. it is not a theorem of science.

when our mom said "i'm gonna kill you, if you do that one more time", we werent really scared we were gonna get killed. but we knew we had pushed as far as she was gonna go, and we had better stop, if we knew what was best for us.

i have made comments that the teachings of jesus are not at all like the old testament, which is true. however, having a general understanding of the old testament - does help us understand the teachings of jesus more clearly.

this is because he was speaking to the jewish people, and the old testament is a history book of the jews. reading it gives one an understanding of the mindset of the jews. had jesus been talking to aliens on jupiter, he no doubt would have said different things to them.
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:47 PM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
i know that is the phrase that bugs you.
It doesn't bug me. I just want you to tell me what you think it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
the problem with people interpreting the bible is that it is not meant to be a literal book, at all times.
On what do you base that opinion? Is there something in the Bible that says the Bible shouldn't be taken literally at all times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
remember, this is a speech. it is not a theorem of science.
Which has been my position all along. You're the one claiming there is one and only one correct interpretation of Jesus' words.

Please, just tell me what those words mean. You can use the rest of the text to explain them. I just want to know why you think Jesus said those words.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:27 AM   #708
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as i said, there are many parables. these events did not happen, nor were they ever said to have happened. for example, the good samaritan.

it was a story about how to act. so you cant take that literally, or else you would have to conclude that it was an actual event.

there are stories all over jesus' teachings that tell you this is not a literal book.

the fact that something is not scientific, does not mean there is not one answer to it.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:34 AM   #709
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hi mem,

please do not comment until i am done, unless you want a clarification about something i said. okay, here is my interpretation. let me start out by talking about the jewish mindset, because this is very important to know, when interpreting the sermon.

the jews had been captured, and enslaved by just about every group of people that lived in those areas for 1000 years.

the old testament is full of passages that talk about their god as being their warrior who was gonna deliver them from all this.

their dream was to be taken to a land filled with milk and honey - in other words, be removed from their miserable existence, and taken to the life of riley. heck, just about all of us would have wanted that, if we had had that sort of existence. so no big surprise there.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:38 AM   #710
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jesus starts out with the beatitudes.

"'Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven; for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.'"

i dont think there is anything i can say to help clarify something that is already perfectly clear. the beatitudes is just that.

but, there is a very important point to be made about it. i dont think you can find this sort of talk anywhere in the old testament. it sure as shooting is not a running theme of the OT.

so obviously, jesus was not here to keep everything in the ot in the status quo. so obviously this one phrase is not meant to be taken literally.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:42 AM   #711
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"Ye are the salt of the earth; but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick, and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let you light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

self-explanatory, i think.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:47 AM   #712
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"Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

since we know the history of the ot, and we know that jesus just gave us the beatitudes, we know that jesus is not here to enforce the old laws, or keep the status quo. so what does this phrase mean ? it is basically an intro to what is to come.

jesus pretty much answers this in the following versus of the sermon, but to put it in today's language, it might sound like the following :

hey you yo-yo's, i am not here to make your life easy. i am not here to take away all these rules, and let you live however you want. no, in many ways i am making your life harder.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:49 AM   #713
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"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, 'Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement.' But I say unto you that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement; and whosoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca', shall be in danger of the council; but whosoever shall say, 'Thou fool', shall be in danger of hell-fire."

this is the law on murder.

jesus was telling the jews that non only was murder forbidden, but dont be foolish enough to allow the situation to get that out of hand, in the first place. if you got a beef with someone, go solve it now.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:52 AM   #714
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"Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother halt aught against thee, leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him, lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou has paid the uttermost farthing."

reconciliation with friends

basically, get rid of your hostilities, so that your heart can be light. reconcile with people, instead of being angry.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:55 AM   #715
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"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, 'Thou shalt not commit adultery.' But I say unto you that whosoever looketh on a women to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

law on adultery. the jews were weak in this area, as are christians today.

not only is adultery a sin, but dont let it get that far. when you start thinking about such things is when you need to make changes.

jesus was not asking us to pluck out our eyes. simply telling us that once we start having these thoughts, we have already started down the wrong road, and have gone some distance down this road.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:57 AM   #716
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"It hath been said, 'Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement.' But I say unto you that whosoever shall put away his wife, saying for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery; and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced cometh of evil."

the old law allowed divorce if the husband gave the wife a paper in writing. jesus's law is tougher. no divorce, unless wife has been unfaithful.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:59 AM   #717
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"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, 'Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths.' But I say unto you, Swear not at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is his footstool; neither by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by the head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, 'Yea, yea'; Nay, nay'; for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

self-explanatory. once again the law is tougher - no swearing at all.
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Old 01-17-2007, 01:00 AM   #718
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"Ye have heard that it hath been said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' "But I say unto you that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."

law on revenge.

completely changed. no revenge at all.
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Old 01-17-2007, 01:01 AM   #719
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"Ye have heard that it hath been said, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.' "But I say unto you, 'Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and them which despitefully use you, persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.' For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do no even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

jesus asked us to love our enemies, not just our friends. anyone can love friends. it takes a lot of doing to love your enemies.
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Old 01-17-2007, 01:03 AM   #720
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"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to he seen of them; otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven."

dont do things so that others can praise you. if you do so, dont expect to get any praise from god, because you already got it from men.
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