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Old 01-20-2007, 02:11 AM   #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
in case you have forgotten, here is the post where i invited you over here.
I didn't forget. My post was in response to your claim that there was a "big difference" between what Jesus said and the rest of the Bible. I pointed out that that didn't matter because we were talking about Christians, and the vast majority of Christians are supposed to accept the entire Bible as divinely inspired. Do you see some "spiritual" component to that statement that merits moving the discussion to this forum? I don't.

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Originally Posted by gymeejet
so as you can plainly see, no hints of politics was included.

and if you have forgotten, we havent talked about any either.
You may not have, but I have. Do you read my posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
most of our discussion has been about whether the bible is inconsistent.
Because that is the basis for my argument that it is unsuitable as the basis for morality or law. Remember?

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Originally Posted by gymeejet
i have told you a few times that i dont disagree with you about the old testament.
Huh? I don't recall sharing my views on the Old Testament here. I've shared the interpretations of some Christian scholars, but you seem to disagree with all of those except the Gnostics. I'm no Gnostic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
and you have been irrational in your thinking regarding the sermon on the mount, which is why i rested my case on that, leaving what i feel was a clear win on my part with the rest of the readers, which is all i was interested in.
And you have stubbornly refused to accept that I'm not giving you my interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount, I'm giving you the interpretations of various Christian scholars. I am not a Christian scholar.

You brought this thread over here to score a win with the rest of the readers?
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:23 AM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memebag
I didn't forget. My post was in response to your claim that there was a "big difference" between what Jesus said and the rest of the Bible. I pointed out that that didn't matter because we were talking about Christians, and the vast majority of Christians are supposed to accept the entire Bible as divinely inspired. Do you see some "spiritual" component to that statement that merits moving the discussion to this forum? I don't.
yes, i do - it is a statement about christianity, which is a system started to help people deal with spiritual questions.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:28 AM   #753
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Originally Posted by memebag
Because that is the basis for my argument that it is unsuitable as the basis for morality or law. Remember?
i remember. however, it is irrelevant. it does not matter or concern me what conclusion you are making based on the assumption.

i am debating the assumption, only.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:31 AM   #754
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Originally Posted by memebag
Huh? I don't recall sharing my views on the Old Testament here. I've shared the interpretations of some Christian scholars, but you seem to disagree with all of those except the Gnostics. I'm no Gnostic.
i thought my statement should have been obvious, based on the context. but since you could not even understand that about the sermon on the mount, i guess i should not expect you to understand it here.

when i said i agreed with you about the old testament, i was referring to the inconsistency of the old testament in the bible.

do you recall that we are debating whether the bible is inconsistent ?

so i will once again tell you that i agree with you about the old testament.

you have failed to show me this is true with regards to the teachings of jesus - the doctrine of christianity.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:34 AM   #755
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Originally Posted by memebag
And you have stubbornly refused to accept that I'm not giving you my interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount, I'm giving you the interpretations of various Christian scholars. I am not a Christian scholar.
do you recall ? YOU YOU YOU said that the teachings of jesus in the sermon on the mount are inconsistent.

do you remember that we are talking about the consistency of the teachings of jesus ?

in this, i have made your reasoning look ridiculous be any debate measures, up to this point. so far, we have only discussed the sermon on the mount.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:37 AM   #756
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should you have any desire to talk about another teaching of jesus, we can do so. i will take each case, individually. it may very well be that you can find something that i will say that i am not sure about. i am also not a christian scholar.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:56 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by memebag

You brought this thread over here to score a win with the rest of the readers?
you are not obligated to post on this thread, if you believe this.

i just wanted to make sure you knew that i am not twisting your arm, or putting any pressure on you.

when someone makes a claim that the teachings of jesus are inconsistent, then i simply challenge them to show me where this is. as someone seeking the truth, i want to know.
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Old 01-20-2007, 03:42 AM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
you are not obligated to post on this thread, if you believe this.

i just wanted to make sure you knew that i am not twisting your arm, or putting any pressure on you.

when someone makes a claim that the teachings of jesus are inconsistent, then i simply challenge them to show me where this is. as someone seeking the truth, i want to know.
My position all along has been that the entire Bible is inconsistent. You're the one who keeps trying to re-frame the argument and limit it to the teachings of Jesus. I said that verses from the Sermon on the Mount (namely Matthew 5:17-20) were used by Christian scholars to use Old Testament commandments to justify the murder and torture of heretics.

In the couse of the discussion, I exposed an inconsistency in your interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount. You then said it wasn't an inconsistency because when Jesus said he was not abolishing Mosaic law he meant he was abolishing Mosaic law. Finally you refused to even suggest a reason Jesus would go to the trouble of making that statement in order to convey its opposite meaning and rested your case.

Somehow you see this as a "win" in the minds of an imagined audience. For all I know they are silently applauding the clarity of your logic.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:15 AM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
since you could not even understand that about the sermon on the mount, i guess i should not expect you to understand it here
Quote:
Originally Posted by memebag
You're the one who keeps trying to re-frame the argument and limit it to the teachings of Jesus.
Damn, another war started over religion.
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:24 AM   #760
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Damn, another war started over religion.
Amen.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:06 PM   #761
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Amen.
Amen to the Amen.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:12 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by unoriginal
Actually, I was being slightly sarcastic when I was making that remark (ok, I was being a smart***).

But to be honest, it isn't that the discussion was happening that caused the remark as the fact that, everytime I see a relgious discussion, I'm left rather befuddled. I don't get it, I probably never will, and I don't understand how people can just go back and forth like that without either figuring something out or just leaving it alone. Oh well.
hi unoriginal,

welcome to the discussion. it is a common misconception that the idea of a debate is to convince the other person of what one is saying. if someone asks a question, or is truly undecided, perhaps this can be the case.

however, this is seldom the goal in any sort of emotional issue. it is much more likely that the typical person has already made their mind up, and is looking solely to bolster up a pre-determined decision.

now, that does not mean one can not have some effect on the person one is debating with - in the sense of one's arguments having a future effect on someone. but we, as people, typically must get to the point of being willing to accept these notions that are different from what we have been taught, or have come to believe. as a brainwashed catholic, i certainly fell into this same mistake for what is still the greatest part of my life. so this can be a secondary goal.

but the primary goal is to lay out your arguments, as if you were talking to a jury. one assumes that the other side will continue to disagree with you, to the bitter end, no matter how hopeless it looks for him. both sides are attempting to present a case, such that a jury (other sirius readers, in this case) finds your arguments to make better sense than the other guy's. or to put it more simply, to win the debate.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:42 PM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneEdwards
Damn, another war started over religion.
war is when one resorts to ammunition of some sort to kill one's opponent.

a debate is when one resorts to words to kill the arguments of one's opponent.

while each may have a lot of tenacity, the results are not comparable.

in the former, people lose their lives. in the latter, the better thought patterns rise to the top, so that hopefully in the long run, people benefit from these more correct thought patterns.

in this thread, we are having debates/discussions about various spiritual topics.
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:36 AM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gymeejet
war is when one resorts to ammunition of some sort to kill one's opponent.

a debate is when one resorts to words to kill the arguments of one's opponent.

while each may have a lot of tenacity, the results are not comparable.

in the former, people lose their lives. in the latter, the better thought patterns rise to the top, so that hopefully in the long run, people benefit from these more correct thought patterns.

in this thread, we are having debates/discussions about various spiritual topics.
Lighten up, Sweetie, it was just a joke
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:57 AM   #765
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okay, a little light-heartedness at half-time never hurt. third quarter will be starting shortly.
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