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Old 03-16-2007, 04:02 PM   #841
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I figure most Christians would feel insulted by the above comments, but I happen to agree with the gist of these two arguments by memebag.
I didn't intend to insult anyone.

Do you think most Christians would feel insulted if their creation myth was referred to as a "creation myth"? Is "creation story" easier to take?
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:50 PM   #842
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I prefer evolution challenged.
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Old 03-16-2007, 07:08 PM   #843
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I probably chose too strong a word when I said "insulted". For closed-minded individuals, maybe. A lot of believers are too set in their ways, and would rather not even listen to opposing viewpoints.

lol, yes, the word "mythology" used to describe Christianity would bother a lot of people.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:52 PM   #844
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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
your point 2 would be considered an attack by a christian. you are basically telling said christian that he will do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical, to continue to believe what they want to believe.

mem's reply.
That's not an attack, that's a description of faith.


my reply.

no, that is not a description of faith. below is the best definition of the word "faith", in the context of this current post.

belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

so faith is a belief in something that can not be proven. i will buy that. however, that does not mean that someone would necessarily have the same faith in something, if one could show provable characteristics about said something.

so it would definitely be an insult to a christian to tell him that he will do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical, to continue to believe in what he wants to believe in.

there is nothing illogical about the belief in god, or the non-belief in god, for that matter.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:57 PM   #845
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so it would definitely be an insult to a christian to tell him that he will do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical, to continue to believe in what he wants to believe in.
I doubt it. Most Christians are proud of their ability to believe in things that are either not proven or disproven. They even celebrate their ability to "do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical" (see http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...1/chapter8.asp for one example.)

What I said was that Christians are experienced at avoiding evidence that challenges their beliefs. This is a provably true statement. When we look at the history of scientific discovery (the age of the earth, it's relationship to other heavenly bodies, the origin of species, the role of lightning, etc.) we see Christians avoiding evidence whenever they think it conflicts with their faith. Scientists have died because of that faith.
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Old 03-22-2007, 11:50 PM   #846
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mem,

i have read too many of your posts. i already know that you attack christianity any time you can. you simply have demonstrated that to me time and time and time and time again.

did i mention time and time again ?

so you definitely intended to insult christianity.

even now you say would they prefer to call it a creation story instead of a creation myth. even an elementary school student is smart enough to know that this is a belittling statement. i am assuming you are as least as smart as a kid in elementary school. correct me if i am making an incorrect assumption.

had you been unbiased, without desire for insult, you would have referred to it as christian beliefs instead of christian mythology. and you would have referred to it as the christian belief in creation as opposed to a christian myth or christian story.

it is so easy to make your statements look foolish, which i will continue to do, just as i did with your ridiculously biased statements about the sermon on the mount.

you have deep-seated problems with your experience with christianity, and your statements show it loud and clear.

however, i dont disagree with everything you say regarding christianity. i was a catholic most of my life, so i understand brainwashing, etc. all too well.
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:51 AM   #847
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had you been unbiased, without desire for insult, you would have referred to it as christian beliefs instead of christian mythology. and you would have referred to it as the christian belief in creation as opposed to a christian myth or christian story.
Do you refer to Egyptian mythology, Greek mythology, Nordic mythology, etc. the same way? Is the word "mythology" banned from your vocabulary? I don't speak of the Sumerian beliefs in creation, I (and most English speakers) call them Sumerian creation myths. I'm not biased against Christianity about this, I treat it like any other religious tradition.

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it is so easy to make your statements look foolish, which i will continue to do, just as i did with your ridiculously biased statements about the sermon on the mount.
How Christ-like!

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you have deep-seated problems with your experience with christianity, and your statements show it loud and clear.
Do I also have deep-seated problems with my experience with all of those other religions I "insult"?
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:00 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
your point 2 would be considered an attack by a christian. you are basically telling said christian that he will do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical, to continue to believe what they want to believe.
I believe he is treating all religions the same, not singling out the christians, and I agree with his use of the word mythology. To me all religious dogma is based on inane myths.
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so faith is a belief in something that can not be proven. i will buy that. however, that does not mean that someone would necessarily have the same faith in something, if one could show provable characteristics about said something.

so it would definitely be an insult to a christian to tell him that he will do whatever is necessary, no matter how illogical, to continue to believe in what he wants to believe in.
The problem with this is when people try to infiltrate society and have their religious faith used as a basis of law. When the government gets involved in issues that have no need for government interference, except for people that are trying to impose their dogma. Things like the Terri Schivo case. This family issue was dragged onto a national scale for one reason only, and that was the religious connotations attached to it.

When we see stories of peoples overt actions to have their faith taught in science classes because they refuse to allow there to be something that could challenge their precious "faith" it leaves those of us that do need to live with the limitations of religion shaking our heads and very much aware of the illogicalness of faith.

It is illogical for religion to be taught as science. The people that came up with this plan know that their goal is to interject religion into science. I have never heard one of these people say that their issue is with possible incorrect science. Their issue is that it goes against their faith. They want to try and find a way to reconcile their faith with science, in order to remove the guilt that they feel by accepting a theory that goes directly against their religion. There is no other reason for this. None. And that makes it illogical.
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there is nothing illogical about the belief in god, or the non-belief in god, for that matter.
Maybe not, but since it is a question that can't be answered with any real physical, tangible proof, it should be considered immaterial to any debate and have no influence on the out come of the decision making process. What does god want doesn't matter since there is no way to even know if there is or isn't a god. It is completely irrelevant.

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Old 03-26-2007, 03:01 AM   #849
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Things like the Terri Schivo case. This family issue was dragged onto a national scale for one reason only, and that was the religious connotations attached to it.
Are you suggesting that only religious people can consider human life inviolate? I suspect that meme would disagree with that statement. (Assuming that he really believes that human life is valuable and that belief is not based in religion)
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:49 AM   #850
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Are you suggesting that only religious people can consider human life inviolate? I suspect that meme would disagree with that statement. (Assuming that he really believes that human life is valuable and that belief is not based in religion)
I think human life is valuable, but not "inviolate". I think some religions attach far too much importance to human life.
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:32 PM   #851
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Are you suggesting that only religious people can consider human life inviolate? I suspect that meme would disagree with that statement. (Assuming that he really believes that human life is valuable and that belief is not based in religion)
No but who was it that turned an issue that was completely a private matter into one of national debate ?

I mean wasn't there an email or letter sent by the republicans saying they needed to get behind this issue because of the religious base ?

It was an issue that should have been handle solely by the courts, but because it was people who needed to have their religious views supersede the laws that turned it into a circus.

I am all for separation of powers. Government stays out of religion's business, and religion stays out of government's business.
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:54 AM   #852
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Do you refer to Egyptian mythology, Greek mythology, Nordic mythology, etc. the same way? Is the word "mythology" banned from your vocabulary? I don't speak of the Sumerian beliefs in creation, I (and most English speakers) call them Sumerian creation myths. I'm not biased against Christianity about this, I treat it like any other religious tradition.
i already answered this for you. here in the states, a myth is considered by most everyone as "something that isnt true". christian beliefs have not been proven false or true. do you understand the difference ?

and for the umpteenth time, christian means a "follower of christ". the old testament is not the teachings of jesus, which i explained to you in our discussions on the sermon.

in these discussions, you have knocked christianity a gazillion times. i dont recall any statements in this thread knocking greek or nordic mythology. but if you can find one where you do, i will find you 10 where you knock christianity.

i think you are once again speaking lawyerese. you say you call them all myths, as if somehow you treat them all equally. you fail to mention the overwhelming percentage of the times you knock christianity versus other sets of beliefs.
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:10 AM   #853
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i already answered this for you. here in the states, a myth is considered by most everyone as "something that isnt true". christian beliefs have not been proven false or true. do you understand the difference ?
No. Have Egyptian beliefs been disproven in some way that Christian beliefs haven't?

Are you saying we shouldn't call Egyptian mythology "Egyptian mythology"?

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and for the umpteenth time, christian means a "follower of christ". the old testament is not the teachings of jesus, which i explained to you in our discussions on the sermon.
You can define Christianity any way you like, but recognize you are constructing your own private language. The majority of people who identify themselves as Christians accept the Old Testament as the word of God.

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in these discussions, you have knocked christianity a gazillion times. i dont recall any statements in this thread knocking greek or nordic mythology. but if you can find one where you do, i will find you 10 where you knock christianity.
By your logic, I'm "knocking" Egyptian mythology whenever I call it "mythology", and so is everyone else. Correct?

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i think you are once again speaking lawyerese. you say you call them all myths, as if somehow you treat them all equally. you fail to mention the overwhelming percentage of the times you knock christianity versus other sets of beliefs.
I'm using the word "myth" as defined in any English dictionary. There's no "lawyerese" in that. I was discussing Christianity when you invited me here, and we continued to talk about it after I came. If you'd like, we can discuss another set of beliefs. I think you'll find that I treat Christian mythology the same way I treat any other.

So, back to the question you refuse to answer. What deep seated problem do I have with my experience of Christianity? You've made claims like this in several posts, but never explained them. If you won't answer, at least tell me why.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:07 PM   #854
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you fail to mention the overwhelming percentage of the times you knock christianity versus other sets of beliefs.
You forget that atheism is a set of beliefs that require a "leap of faith" just like any other religious belief. Then some people, like meme, who make this leap to "there is no god" then decide to become a crusader and only feel good when they denigrate those who believe differently.

The most humorous (or saddest) part is that in so doing they often make the accusation that Christians don't respect other religions when they simultaneously refuse to respect Christianity. Hypocrisy at its finest. Most often this hypocritical form of bigotry is disguised in faux intellectualism.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:30 PM   #855
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You forget that atheism is a set of beliefs that require a "leap of faith" just like any other religious belief. Then some people, like meme, who make this leap to "there is no god" then decide to become a crusader and only feel good when they denigrate those who believe differently.
Is it a similar leap of faith to believe there is no Santa Claus, or no Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Do you assume there could be a Flying Spaghetti Monster until you make that leap of faith?

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The most humorous (or saddest) part is that in so doing they often make the accusation that Christians don't respect other religions when they simultaneously refuse to respect Christianity. Hypocrisy at its finest. Most often this hypocritical form of bigotry is disguised in faux intellectualism.
If you have something to say to me, please say it directly.
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