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Old 06-04-2007, 10:18 AM   #931
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That's a common misunderstanding of the past. Ideas have been travelling through human populations as long as humans have had speech.
Written language has only been around for a few thousand years. Other than that, we have to look at drawings in caves. The only way knowlege was passed is in story and song. So everyone go out to a pub and pass on your knowledge.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:52 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by memebag View Post
Huh? You said:

Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
i think you are jumping to conclusions based upon what you want to be true, just as believers do.

How did I quote you incorrectly?
i did indeed say this, and believe it to be true.

however, i did not say the following :

You think by speculating that monotheistic Judaism may have been influenced by other monotheistic religions that I'm jumping to conclusions? Sorry, I don't see it.


that is something you dreamed up all by yourself. i guess i should credit you with having a vivid imagination.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:57 PM   #933
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i did indeed say this, and believe it to be true.

however, i did not say the following :

You think by speculating that monotheistic Judaism may have been influenced by other monotheistic religions that I'm jumping to conclusions? Sorry, I don't see it.


that is something you dreamed up all by yourself. i guess i should credit you with having a vivid imagination.
All I've said is that monotheistic Judaism may have been influenced by other monotheistic religions. To what conclusion did I jump?
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:51 PM   #934
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hi mem,

if you go back and re-read my posts, i was not complaining about your assumption (i.e. was judaism influenced by other monotheistic cultures ?)

what i said was that i think you are jumping to the conclusion to this assumption, based upon what you want to believe.

when i did searches on the net, as i said, i found all sorts of conflicting info about the archaeology of this topic.

it is my opinion that you are using just those interpretations that fit what you want to believe, and ignoring all the rest. this is so typical of human behavior. i have done this before, so i am not knocking you - just offering what i hope someday you will see as constructive criticism.

it took a long time (most of my life) to get to the point of admitting that i dont know if god exists or not. and i did a lot of this same sort of reasoning (find me articles that support what i want to believe, and ignore anything that does not suit me).

so for example, dont be too sure that WE HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHEN JUDAISM BECAME MONOTHEISTIC. or that it ever started out as anything but.

i am perfectly willing to admit that i dont know if abraham, moses, david or solomon actually existed. or that just about anything in the old testament is true. there is little that i can verify.

we all know a lot less than we think we do. it is a lot more appropriate to have levels of suspicion, based upon some set of knowledge - but always remember that those levels can be drastically adjusted in a heart beat, if one becomes aware of new info.

your willingness to make unsound arguments with regards to the sermon on the mount tells me how emotionally biased you are, at this point.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:01 AM   #935
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hi mem,

if you go back and re-read my posts, i was not complaining about your assumption (i.e. was judaism influenced by other monotheistic cultures ?)
What "assumption" are you talking about? Saying "monotheistic Judaism may have been influenced by other monotheistic religions" is neither an assumption nor a conclusion. It's speculation, (backed by archeological evidence.)

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it is my opinion that you are using just those interpretations that fit what you want to believe, and ignoring all the rest.
What, exactly, do you assume I want to believe? I have no horse in this race. I don't worship El, Yahweh, Baal or Aten. It makes no difference to me when or how Judaism evolved.
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:58 PM   #936
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What "assumption" are you talking about? Saying "monotheistic Judaism may have been influenced by other monotheistic religions" is neither an assumption nor a conclusion. It's speculation, (backed by archeological evidence.)
i wont get involved in semantics with you, but your main gist is to assume that judaism was influenced by other monotheistic thought patterns, and then show only said evidence that is liking to this assumption.

and in a previous post, i simply said that you are picking and choosing your pieces of evidence to coincide with what you want to be true.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:03 AM   #937
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i wont get involved in semantics with you, but your main gist is to assume that judaism was influenced by other monotheistic thought patterns, and then show only said evidence that is liking to this assumption.
No one is asking you to debate semantics. I'm asking you to tell me what you mean by "jumping to conclusions". I have never assumed that Judaism was influenced by other monotheistic religions. I said it may have been.

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and in a previous post, i simply said that you are picking and choosing your pieces of evidence to coincide with what you want to be true.
Again, what do I want to be true? Are you saying I want Judaism to have been influenced by other monotheistic religions? I don't understand where you get that, or why I would want that. What motivation are you projecting on me?
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:12 AM   #938
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No one is asking you to debate semantics. I'm asking you to tell me what you mean by "jumping to conclusions". I have never assumed that Judaism was influenced by other monotheistic religions. I said it may have been.
at this point, you are saying that it may have been. you have been presenting the case more like it almost certainly was.

if you reread my posts, i have already explained "jumping to conclusions".

you are using just the archaeological interpretations that fit your desired results, and therefore jumping to conclusions - instead of seeing the whole forest, and realizing that the data is nowhere near close to being able to make a solid conclusion. of all the urls on the net that say that the bible timeframe is way off, they are still in a lot of disagreement. at this point, we need to learn more. i hope we do. the truth is always enlightening.
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Old 06-11-2007, 02:35 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
at this point, you are saying that it may have been. you have been presenting the case more like it almost certainly was.
Then cite an example.

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if you reread my posts, i have already explained "jumping to conclusions".
Where?

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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
you are using just the archaeological interpretations that fit your desired results, and therefore jumping to conclusions - instead of seeing the whole forest, and realizing that the data is nowhere near close to being able to make a solid conclusion.
I can't, since I have no "desired results". I haven't presented anything as a "solid conclusion". You're not reading my posts if you think this.
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:30 PM   #940
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Then cite an example.

We have a good idea of when Judaism became monotheistic. I believe that you don't know much about the accuracy of Egyptian history, but luckily they left excellent records that can be and have been verified against other histories and archeological evidence.
you dont know when or if judaism became monotheistic. you "are jumping to conclusions", the ones you want to believe, my using those interpretations that point to this conclusion.

i have said this about 4 times to you now. so quit asking me what i mean about "you jumping to conclusions", or how i havent told you before what i mean.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:41 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
you dont know when or if judaism became monotheistic.
Not precisely, but there is evidence of when it happened.

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you "are jumping to conclusions", the ones you want to believe, my using those interpretations that point to this conclusion.
Interpretations? I'm talking about archeology. What other "interpretations" are out there?

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i have said this about 4 times to you now. so quit asking me what i mean about "you jumping to conclusions", or how i havent told you before what i mean.
You still haven't told me what you mean. What conclusion did I jump to?
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:48 AM   #942
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goodness gracious, can you read ?

i have read many urls on the net about ARCHAEOLOGICAL interpretations. they dont all match. get it ?

you are choosing the interpretations that match what you want to believe. get it ?

how much clearer do you want it ?

we dont know for sure when or if judaism became monotheistic.

just admit this. you dont know anything for sure about this topic. i have already admitted that i dont know anything for sure.

too many of the archaeological interpretations differ from one another. even among those that tend towards your desires for the truth.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:54 AM   #943
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goodness gracious, can you read ?
No. I'm typing this all in randomly. It only looks like I can read.

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Originally Posted by gymeejet View Post
i have read many urls on the net about ARCHAEOLOGICAL interpretations. they dont all match. get it ?
Perhaps if you shared some of the "urls" you have read on the net, I might.

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you are choosing the interpretations that match what you want to believe. get it ?
No. I don't want to believe anything.

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how much clearer do you want it ?
State the conclusion to which I jumped.

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we dont know for sure when or if judaism became monotheistic.
We know Judaism is monotheistic. We doubt that it sprang fully formed from Abraham's head. From the language used and archeology of people like William G. Dever, a good guess is that it became monotheistic around 1300-1200 BC.

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just admit this. you dont know anything for sure about this topic. i have already admitted that i dont know anything for sure.
I know Judaism is currently monotheistic.

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too many of the archaeological interpretations differ from one another. even among those that tend towards your desires for the truth.
Such as?
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:56 PM   #944
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Archeology isn't exact truth, and neither is the bible. Oh people say it's absolute and infallible truth. They are fucking numbnutz. The bible as is archeology of products of the fallible.... men.
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:06 PM   #945
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hi rc,

i certainly do not believe that the bible is infallible truth. in fact, i think most of the ot has nothing to do with god inspiring it. to me, it is simply a misguided jewish history book.
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